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EF-42 or EF-20 ?


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#1 Russell

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 11:13 PM

I really like the look of some of the outdoor flash photography that some of the members here are doing and I'd like to try this approach as well. I haven't used a hot shoe flash in years , so I'm completely clueless. The Fuji site has no meaningful info that I could find on the EF-42 and EF-20.

Since many here are experienced with these type of flash units, could anyone explain the differences between the two?

Big Thanks!

#2 funky_chilli

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 11:28 PM

I'm not familiar with either flashes, nor external flashes in general, as I have never personally used an external flash before. Well I've played with some of my friend's ones, but have never owned one to use extensively.

However if you're looking for more information on the two Fuji flashes, I believe they are re-branded flashes made by a company called

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and the Fuji models EF-20 and EF-42 are otherwise known as

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and

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respectively.

So maybe if you were to look up those two model names instead of the Fuji ones, u might find some more info on the flashes that bear the Fuji name.

Good luck B)
- Wils



"a good photo is like a good joke; if you have to explain it, it's probably just not very good" - anonymous

#3 widget

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 11:35 PM

Being a noob about flash, I'm wondering other than the more powerful output and the swivel head of the EF-42, do we need the additional feature, such as the auto-zooming capability since X100 is fixed to 35mm?

X-T1, Touit 12, Touit 32, XC50-230, Nissin i40


#4 Teski

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 01:06 AM

The 42 just seems too big for the X100. I'd go for the EF-20 myself...In fact, I'll probably get one once it finally arrives in the US.

#5 drofremoc

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 02:04 AM

The 42 just seems too big for the X100. I'd go for the EF-20 myself...In fact, I'll probably get one once it finally arrives in the US.


Bigger the EF42 might be, but the 1 killer feature it has is the ability to swivel so you can bounce your flash off the wall, the ceiling, a window, whatever, and to get "directional" light on your subject.

Natural light does not always come from the front or from directly above (which is pretty much will with the EF20). The EF42 will allow you to have your light source coming from a more natural direction (side, angle etc). Also, by bouncing your flash off a wall etc, you effectively create a much bigger, and hence softer, light source, reducing harsh shadows and avoiding stuff like red-eye and hotspots/shine. Having your flash light source coming from somewhere other than inline with the lens is almost essential to get a natural "no flash" look from flash photography.

Check out

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and the other cool articles on flash (on and off-camera) at

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As the owner of both Nikon SB400 and Canon Speedlight 220ex flashes that very rarely get used because of their inability to bounce anything other than straight ahead/overhead, I implore you to read and understand the techniques of bounce flash before making the decision either way. My SB600 is pretty much similar to the EF42 and I would suspect the EF42 to give similar results.

In any case, the built-in flash on the X100 does a pretty good job as a fill-flash in the straight-ahead position - if you want to take your flash photography in a more advanced direction the EF42 would be (IMHO) a much better choice. Even better if turns out it can be used wirelessly off-camera - but that is a whole other discussion.

Not that the EF20 will be no good - it will surely give better results than the built-in - but the EF42 will allow you so much more capability.

Cheers,
D

#6 Birdman

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 02:20 AM

Bigger the EF42 might be, but the 1 killer feature it has is the ability to swivel so you can bounce your flash off the wall, the ceiling, a window, whatever, and to get "directional" light on your subject. ... the EF42 will allow you so much more capability.

Those are exactly the reasons why I ordered the EF-42 - should arrive by tomorrow. Of course it is much bigger than the EF-20, but most of the time I will use it inside at home anyway, so no need to carry around. And outdoors or for an inside snapshot beeing on the road the built-in flash will do a pretty good job. If there is time I might post some examples after the weekend.

#7 pavig

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 02:20 AM

The larger flash is a lot more powerful, and can be swiveled to bounce off walls etc. These are great options.

If however you get the smaller flash and find you fall in love with it, you may wish to get a larger generic "strobist" flash off eBay to add to your kit. By running your flash manual (in commander mode), you can use the optical trigger for an external flash in your other hand, or placed around the scene. For some ideas on off-camera lighting see

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and check the lighting 101 articles.

The nice thing for us x100 users is that any old strobe will do. The fuji ones are only really required for full ttl (ie fully automatic) operation. If you fall in love with strobes, you can add cheap generic kit to your camera bag, as you'll be running everything full manual to artistically balance your lighting anyway. Expensive "system" strobes offer little over cheap generics when you are playing with creative lighting and break out of their system functions. Pretty much any flash that will fit a modern camera will work fine.

So if you don't know which you prefer, get the smaller one. You may love it, then for less than the price difference for the larger, you could get yourself a higher powered generic strobe capable of working off camera. Two for the price of one!

I've played with the fuji in commander mode, and a nikon sb700 off camera in dumb slave mode. It works a charm, though effectively turns the $500 nikon into a $50 YongNuo. The results look great either way. The nikon (or just about anything) works on the hotshoe if you wish, and if you are willing to dial it up and down to compensate for natural light it'll look great... Apart from on the camera, where it looks somewhat ridiculous. :)

Anyway... Just wanted to give you some food for thought. You will be happy with either of the fuji strobes, and if you get into creative flash, it may only be the start of your journey. Cheap awesome options abound - a set of colored gels provides tons of creative tricks for a few bucks. Fuji's larger strobe will give yu more options, but "the best flash is the flash you have" and the more pocketable smaller unit may fit your shooting style better.

Hope this little rant helped.

By the way, the "focus light" is just a big fat near infared focus assist lamp - good for locking better focus in low light without blinding your subject.

#8 Arjay

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 05:00 AM

Hm - flash choice really depends on how you intend to use the unit. I often use flash off-camera with a hotshoe-to-flash connection cable in way similar to what Bruce Gilden is doing. In such a mode, TTL operation is very useful, and flash power isn't all that important. So for this way of shooting, I would opt for the smaller, more portable flash, the EF-20.

The only questions remaining are:
  • Which flash cable do I have to use, and where could I buy it? Obviously, the cable must connect all flash contacts from the camera to the speedlight for TTL operation.
  • Is there a specific gizmo to mount color filters on the EF-20 flash? When shooting in tungsten-lit environments, I often put a tungsten conversion filter on my flash unit and set camera WB to tungsten, so I can factor in ambient lighting for flash photography.


#9 funky_chilli

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 06:29 AM

Arjay, out of curiosity, what sort of hotshoe-to-flash connection do you use? I've never thought of using a flash like that, and u've sparked my curiosity :)
- Wils



"a good photo is like a good joke; if you have to explain it, it's probably just not very good" - anonymous

#10 Arjay

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 06:46 AM

Well, I use an SC-17 cable on my Nikon D300 to tether my SB-800 flash for full TTL operation. Unfortunately, the X100 has a different contact arrangement, so I need to find a cable that matches the X100's contact layout.

But using the EF-20 tethered should be possible with the X100 because the camera/flash combo also uses preflashes and TTL flash exposure metering.

As for practical use, I hold the camera in my right and the flash in my left hand (working hard to correctly aim it at my subject). When in TTL operation, I can dial in the flash exposure correction factor in the X100 and get a reasonably well-balanced exposure both of ambient and flash light. BTW, I can determine which light component - ambient or flash - will be the main light by appropriately selecting the flash exposure correction factor and a normal EV correction for ambient light. The rest of camera operation is fairly normal: I'm using aperture priority AE and a fixed ISO value.

I've used this technique a lot with my D300, and it would be interesting to try this out with the X100: The big question is whether the normal EV correction dial just works for ambient light exposure, so the flash exp. compensation works completely independently, or if the EV dial has a global effect (both for ambient and flash) and you need to counteract this in flash EV compensation (like Nikon does).

PS: Does anybody know if Fuji uses the same contact arrangement as any other major camera maker (even if the internal control functions work differently)? I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere that Leica is using the same contact arrangement as Fuji - can anyone confirm this?

#11 Burkey

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 07:23 AM

I was going to purchase the EF-20. Instead I have an EF-42 arriving today I bought on Amazon yesterday. I wanted the smaller unit too but, as has already been said in this thread, the EF-42 appears to have more bounce abilities. I have a Stofen Omni-Bounce on the way too. I've used these bounce attachments since my Mamiya 645 days and have had good luck with them.
I'll post a couple of pictures using the EF-42 on the X100 here later.
By the way - I emailed Sunpak yesterday to see if they had any flashes that were TTL compatible with the X100. Their reply was no, only the re-branded EF-20 and EF-42 with the different contact configuration.
. . . David

#12 psartman

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 07:53 AM

[*]Is there a specific gizmo to mount color filters on the EF-20 flash? When shooting in tungsten-lit environments, I often put a tungsten conversion filter on my flash unit and set camera WB to tungsten, so I can factor in ambient lighting for flash photography.
[/list]


Yes, it's called "tape." I've done this with countless flashes for many years, the downside is they can end up with tape residue. You can make tabs to secure and easily change gel filters, I usually use gaffers tape (fancy duct tape with better adhesive) and fold the edges back on itself a bit to cover the adhesive on the outer edge. Better seen than described, sorry I don't have these flashes nearby to photograph. I also put a little transparent tape pocket over the flash on my X100 to tuck color correction gels (or in this case an IR filter.) I cover the middle adhesive section with another bit of tape so it only sticks on the edges.
-Paul
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#13 Teski

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 08:22 AM

Bigger the EF42 might be, but the 1 killer feature it has is the ability to swivel so you can bounce your flash off the wall, the ceiling, a window, whatever, and to get "directional" light on your subject.

Natural light does not always come from the front or from directly above (which is pretty much will with the EF20). The EF42 will allow you to have your light source coming from a more natural direction (side, angle etc). Also, by bouncing your flash off a wall etc, you effectively create a much bigger, and hence softer, light source, reducing harsh shadows and avoiding stuff like red-eye and hotspots/shine. Having your flash light source coming from somewhere other than inline with the lens is almost essential to get a natural "no flash" look from flash photography.

Check out

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and the other cool articles on flash (on and off-camera) at

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As the owner of both Nikon SB400 and Canon Speedlight 220ex flashes that very rarely get used because of their inability to bounce anything other than straight ahead/overhead, I implore you to read and understand the techniques of bounce flash before making the decision either way. My SB600 is pretty much similar to the EF42 and I would suspect the EF42 to give similar results.

In any case, the built-in flash on the X100 does a pretty good job as a fill-flash in the straight-ahead position - if you want to take your flash photography in a more advanced direction the EF42 would be (IMHO) a much better choice. Even better if turns out it can be used wirelessly off-camera - but that is a whole other discussion.

Not that the EF20 will be no good - it will surely give better results than the built-in - but the EF42 will allow you so much more capability.

Cheers,
D


The 20 will bounce too but it just doesn't swivel.
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#14 Russell

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 12:35 PM

drofremoc , pavig, Arjay - Thanks for all the detailed info.

The more I think about it, the look/style I'll want to get into will be that of off camera flash, so maybe neither of these flashes will be of much use for me!
Maybe I need to get a wireless system where I can trigger one or two off camera strobes.
I'm comfortable to use them in manual mode and learn that way. You guys know alot about this and the websites mentioned will no doubt provide the schooling I need.

Can anyone suggest an inexpensive but good system consisting of a wireless trigger and strobe, best suited for the X100?

Big Thanks

#15 Burkey

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 12:42 PM

Well, the long and da' short of it is - that it arrived, I tried it and it appears to work well. But, I sent it back to Amazon. It just didn't seem worth the money. I will do some more experimenting with my Olympus FL-36 and manual EV overrides. It was nice but once again since I own an FL-36 I couldn't justify it. If I didn't own the Olympus flash I most likely would have kept this one. I'll just use it without TTL. 'Hope this helps.
. . . David

#16 Russell

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 04:06 PM

Well, the long and da' short of it is - that it arrived, I tried it and it appears to work well. But, I sent it back to Amazon. It just didn't seem worth the money. I will do some more experimenting with my Olympus FL-36 and manual EV overrides. It was nice but once again since I own an FL-36 I couldn't justify it. If I didn't own the Olympus flash I most likely would have kept this one. I'll just use it without TTL. 'Hope this helps.
. . . David


Being able to return stuff that you've tried out is one of the benefits of being a consumer in the US. Most other countries, if you buy something it's yours! If it's unopened you might get a store credit at best

#17 Burkey

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 05:10 PM

Russel - I agree. A great benefit. I'm a big fan of Amazon.
I was surprised I wasn't totally in awe of the EF-42. 'Nice flash, just not what I wanted for the money. I just ran a couple of informal tests this afternoon using my Olympus FL-36 on the X100 in "Auto" mode and it worked pretty well. I was able to match the f-stop I was using on the camera on the flash by turning a small thumb wheel the FL-36 has. Worked great in bounce too while in automatic. I think I will stick with this flash for a while.
. . . David

#18 pavig

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 06:56 PM

drofremoc , pavig, Arjay - Thanks for all the detailed info.

The more I think about it, the look/style I'll want to get into will be that of off camera flash, so maybe neither of these flashes will be of much use for me!

Can anyone suggest an inexpensive but good system consisting of a wireless trigger and strobe, best suited for the X100?

Big Thanks


eBay may be your friend. I hear good reports about the very cheap YongNuo strobes and triggers. A yn460 ii strobe is under fifty dollars. It has optical slave mode built in, and a gn of up to 53 at iso 200. One of their radio slave hotshoe kits will set you back around 25 bucks. If you can live without ttl, it may be a very cheap and functional entry into off-camera flash. The Yn460 has Luke warm reviews as an on-camera flash due to no auto modes, but excels as an off camera slave. Best of all it's a comparatively small investment if you later decide to get a more expensive fuji ttl flash, and will still be of use if you do.

Just about anything that is compatible with fuji, nikon, etc, ie. Multiple brands, will work with the x100 in manual mode. You may find other second hand strobe bargains if you keep your eye out, and just add a yongnuo remote kit. Just make sure the strobe is reasonably modern, and you can adjust exposure value in manual mode.

Hope this helps.

#19 boone

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 09:34 PM

I presume with the on camera Fuji units you can sync at any shutter speed. How about with the off camera strobes? How do you sync with faster shutter speeds or do you need special high speed strobes that can take a fast sync? I have no experience with using high speed strobes so I'm not sure.

#20 Russell

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 09:46 PM

eBay may be your friend. I hear good reports about the very cheap YongNuo strobes and triggers. A yn460 ii strobe is under fifty dollars. It has optical slave mode built in, and a gn of up to 53 at iso 200. One of their radio slave hotshoe kits will set you back around 25 bucks. If you can live without ttl, it may be a very cheap and functional entry into off-camera flash. The Yn460 has Luke warm reviews as an on-camera flash due to no auto modes, but excels as an off camera slave. Best of all it's a comparatively small investment if you later decide to get a more expensive fuji ttl flash, and will still be of use if you do.

Just about anything that is compatible with fuji, nikon, etc, ie. Multiple brands, will work with the x100 in manual mode. You may find other second hand strobe bargains if you keep your eye out, and just add a yongnuo remote kit. Just make sure the strobe is reasonably modern, and you can adjust exposure value in manual mode.

Hope this helps.


Yes Big Thanks!
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#21 bwcolor

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:25 PM

I have four Vivitar, six Canon, two Contax, one small Metz and a powerful Quantum flash. I have Gary what's his name's most recent plastic light modifier and a pile of brackets. When I want to carry something heavy, I'll use one of these other flashes and another camera. I purchased the X100 for the small size, great lens, viewfinder and more relevant, for the high ISO performance. I'm buying a flash for fill flash with the hood on and I want small. Many of the shots where I would have used a flash are now being shot with the incredible high ISO performance of the X100. The only reason that I'm buying the EF-20 is so that I can shoot in Auto Iso and use a flash easily, otherwise I would just use the small Metz. Why buy a bulky flash and turn your sleek machine into a tank?

#22 jmefun

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:29 AM

I just got an X100S camera and it's my 1st Fuji.  

I'm familiar with on & off flashes on my Canon system, both manual and TTL.

 

I tried Youngnuo YN-622C radio trigger on the X100S, and it worked fine as a dumb trigger (straight fire, no TTL) for my external flashes (Canon 540EZ, 580EX II).  So with appropriated flash triggers (radio or infrared), you can do full manual flash on Fuji cameras with any external flash that has manual power level control.

 

I'm looking into the EF-42 for only one main reason:   as an off-camera with full Fuji TTL functions; and that can be accomplished using a Canon OC3 flash cord.

In situations where flash-to-subject-distance keeps changing constantly (weddings, events, etc), TTL is invaluable and manual flash is not going to cut it.

 

If you are looking for off-camera TTL capabilities, then buy Fuji flashes.  

Otherwise, if you mainly shoot in manual flash mode, then there're much cheaper and better options.

The Youngnuo 560 III is a full manual flash with built-in radio receiver.  Youngnuo is coming our with a new radio transmitter that will let you remotely adjust power level on the remote 560 III flashes.  



#23 harioh

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:48 PM

I just got an X100S camera and it's my 1st Fuji.  

I'm familiar with on & off flashes on my Canon system, both manual and TTL.

 

I tried Youngnuo YN-622C radio trigger on the X100S, and it worked fine as a dumb trigger (straight fire, no TTL) for my external flashes (Canon 540EZ, 580EX II).  So with appropriated flash triggers (radio or infrared), you can do full manual flash on Fuji cameras with any external flash that has manual power level control.

 

I'm looking into the EF-42 for only one main reason:   as an off-camera with full Fuji TTL functions; and that can be accomplished using a Canon OC3 flash cord.

In situations where flash-to-subject-distance keeps changing constantly (weddings, events, etc), TTL is invaluable and manual flash is not going to cut it.

 

If you are looking for off-camera TTL capabilities, then buy Fuji flashes.  

Otherwise, if you mainly shoot in manual flash mode, then there're much cheaper and better options.

The Youngnuo 560 III is a full manual flash with built-in radio receiver.  Youngnuo is coming our with a new radio transmitter that will let you remotely adjust power level on the remote 560 III flashes.  

 

Is it a good idea to use off-camera ttl? I mean that if the camera and flash are not together, what's the point -- you will likely need to tweak flash settings anyway...in which case, might as well use radio triggers in manual mode. I am no flash expert, so wouldn't mind if the flaws in my thinking are pointed out.

 

Aside: I have the ef-x20 and can't say enough about its advantages (mainly size/build/on-board-ttl), so paying a bit more for it is totally worth it.



#24 Nightdiver13

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 11:24 PM

Is it a good idea to use off-camera ttl? I mean that if the camera and flash are not together, what's the point -- you will likely need to tweak flash settings anyway...in which case, might as well use radio triggers in manual mode. I am no flash expert, so wouldn't mind if the flaws in my thinking are pointed out.

 

Aside: I have the ef-x20 and can't say enough about its advantages (mainly size/build/on-board-ttl), so paying a bit more for it is totally worth it.

 

Off camera TTL is the same as on-camera regarding the ability (or inability, depending on your point of view) of the camera to choose an appropriate flash exposure. The camera does the computing based on the ambient and pre-flash from the flash unit, so it doesn't much matter if the flash is directly in front of your subject or off to the side. I rarely use TTL any more, but I can still appreciate the flexibility it gives you in certain situations.


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— Neil


#25 harioh

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

 

Off camera TTL is the same as on-camera regarding the ability (or inability, depending on your point of view) of the camera to choose an appropriate flash exposure. The camera does the computing based on the ambient and pre-flash from the flash unit, so it doesn't much matter if the flash is directly in front of your subject or off to the side. I rarely use TTL any more, but I can still appreciate the flexibility it gives you in certain situations.

 

I didn't realize that the external flash can contribute/control TTL. Thanks.




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