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X-E2


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162 replies to this topic

#31 opskoewel

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

Yes, I agree, the X-E1 is only the small brother of the X-PRO1 and, of course, big brother will be updated first! And it seems that 2013 will be the time for this! So, I think most people are happy to have a "smaller and cheaper" X-PRO1, the X-E1 now and, for those who want "better", and not only cheaper and a little different, they should wait for the X-PRO2. For me it makes sense...



#32 sachu

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:33 PM

I would like to see some serious weather sealing on the next iteration. That's my only reason to even think about getting a DSLR as a second camera. 


Edited by sachu, 11 January 2013 - 06:40 PM.


#33 Tailwagger

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

I largely agree Arjay. I'm sure the engineering task is a bit more difficult than just throwing in a new sensor and processor.  That said the hybrid AF is in the X20 which while not interchangeable is multi-focal length so its not unreasonable to assume it can and will be done. Regardless, I think one thing lost in all the grousing is the rather modest initial pricing of the X-E1.  By any reasonable standard, with or without the new hardware, the XE still represents a tremendous value.  Had it's introduction been delayed until CES and debuted with the old sensor along side of the new X100S last week, I suspect many of us would be buying it now anyway.

 

I do think though that some of the energy behind the negative sentiment expressed here would be far more muted if the AF implementation in the XE was a little more refined. But that attitude also assumes the new hybrid AF truly addresses all the shortcomings of the CD only system.  I certainly hope so, but other manufacturers have recently introduced hybrid systems and those offerings, at least from what little I've read, haven't set the world afire.  So I've yet to be convinced that this new system represents such a huge a step forward as others have assumed. If it does turn out to be revolutionary, I'll likely be trading up sooner than expected, but that prospect does nothing to diminish the joy I am currently experiencing as an owner of the current iteration. 


Edited by Tailwagger, 11 January 2013 - 06:49 PM.

A pair of X-T1s, X-E1, 23mm, 35mm, 56mm, 60mm, 10-24mm, 18-55mm, 55-200mm, Bower 8mm Flickr Fuji Fotos

ex Xs: X100S.

 


#34 opskoewel

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

Sorry but I don't understand your comment about "modest initial pricing"! Does 1500, 1600 US$ sound so "cheap" to you?? Full frame DSLR are getting cheaper and cheaper and, even if the X-E1 is very good, it is not a Full Frame-Full Feature DSLR. Ok, it is also smaller and lighter but, at least for me, 1500 is not "modest"! Or maybe I am the only "not-rich" person here in this discussion...



#35 Tailwagger

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

Sorry but I don't understand your comment about "modest initial pricing"! Does 1500, 1600 US$ sound so "cheap" to you?? Full frame DSLR are getting cheaper and cheaper and, even if the X-E1 is very good, it is not a Full Frame-Full Feature DSLR. Ok, it is also smaller and lighter but, at least for me, 1500 is not "modest"! Or maybe I am the only "not-rich" person here in this discussion...

First, I said modest, not cheap. Second its $1399 US, not $1600. Third, as you brought up FF cameras, a 5D MkIIII with 24-105 F4 is $3500 US, a 6D is $2700, a D800E is $3300 body only, D600 is $2000 body only, an A99 is $2800.  Fourth, and most important, the X-Pro was introduced a year ago at $1799 body only. The X-E1 at $400 less with a $699 lens attached is, IMO, aggressively, and yes modestly, priced. Not cheap, but very, very reasonable.

 

 

[edit . $1699 for the pro when introduced. OTOH, a Leica X2...]


Edited by Tailwagger, 11 January 2013 - 07:46 PM.

A pair of X-T1s, X-E1, 23mm, 35mm, 56mm, 60mm, 10-24mm, 18-55mm, 55-200mm, Bower 8mm Flickr Fuji Fotos

ex Xs: X100S.

 


#36 opskoewel

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

Ok, sorry, in Europe it is 1300 Euro, around 1700 US$! Than, it is not a full frame DSLR and you can get them at 1500 Euro (body only) already 

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So, I agree with you if you say we can have THE SAME features and quality of a full frame with the X-E1, then yes, it is "a bargain". If not, just look at Sony or Olympus, to see that they are in another price range (even if OM-D is the same price, E-PL5 is not far away from X-E1 for half of the price!), and just look at "nice" "small" (smaller) size cameras and see how many you can buy with that money. Yes, I agree that the X-E1 is unique in quality but, "modest", I don't think so. It is the price "IF" you want a camera with lot's of things that don't really work so well with a superb image quality. For 900 Euro here, in Europe, I would expect a camera that has no lag in the viewfinder, good live view anywhere, faster auto-focus, and so on. At least!!! Yes, the images are better than anything else but for 1300 Euro I don't think it is "modest" for a camera with so many "problems". Sorry, I think it is a question about the perspective you see it.



#37 nixda

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

Fuji is following a very logical path by evolving its product line one by one, and by introducing new technologies in a product where such an introduction will only incur limited risks.

 

Would you think the managers got together two years ago and decided, "OK, let's release the X-Pro1, then eight months later the X-E1. At the same time, we'll develop the new sensor and processor, start putting it into the X100S, have that camera join the X-Trans lineup, have it kick off the second X-Trans/EXR generation and announce it two months after releasing the X-E1". Does that sound plausible? I don't think so. I think something got delayed with the X-Pro1 and X-E1 and/or they pushed the X100S up. They have different teams working on the different components, and perhaps those teams don't talk much to each other. One or more of the teams must have been faster or slower than anticipated. To me, it reeks a bit of questionable planning and/or execution. Delays happen all the time, just look at the current lenses, but this time, it turned out to be a bit more unfortunate than other times.



#38 Tailwagger

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

Would you think the managers got together two years ago and decided, "OK, let's release the X-Pro1, then eight months later the X-E1. At the same time, we'll develop the new sensor and processor, start putting it into the X100S, have that camera join the X-Trans lineup, have it kick off the second X-Trans/EXR generation and announce it two months after releasing the X-E1". Does that sound plausible? I don't think so. I think something got delayed with the X-Pro1 and X-E1 and/or they pushed the X100S up. They have different teams working on the different components, and perhaps those teams don't talk much to each other. One or more of the teams must have been faster or slower than anticipated. To me, it reeks a bit of questionable planning and/or execution. Delays happen all the time, just look at the current lenses, but this time, it turned out to be a bit more unfortunate than other times.

 

How is it then that the in the same time frames as the XE/X100S, we see them releasing the XF1 based on the X10 sensor and following it up with the X20 with a new sensor and processor as well?   This seems far more calculated pattern then unfortunate coincidence to me.


A pair of X-T1s, X-E1, 23mm, 35mm, 56mm, 60mm, 10-24mm, 18-55mm, 55-200mm, Bower 8mm Flickr Fuji Fotos

ex Xs: X100S.

 


#39 Ratty Mouse

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:48 AM

I agree generally with Arjay's comments earlier in this thread, but I do find it mildly upsetting that less than one and a half months after releasing the X-E1, Fuji introduces successors to sensor and processor. Product upgrades happen all the time, but when they happen within less than two months of releasing the previous model, there usually is a big uproar. Granted, the X100S and X-E1 are not the same cameras, but the sensor and processor lines are shared, so it leaves a sour taste nevertheless. They had the new, 'better' hardware but chose not to put it into the X-E1. Whether they still had stockpiles of the sensors and processors and needed to get rid of them, or whether they wanted to recoup money for their R&D doesn't really matter, that would simply be bad planning on their part.

 

Those who bought into a new system by getting the X-E1 and plan on keeping a body for years (I have and I do) would like to get started with the latest a manufacturer has to offer. So, it's not very easy to swallow when one buys a product as soon as it comes out, and then it essentially gets superseded two months later.

 

It would have been more nice for Fuji to say "we are going to round out the current X-Trans line by releasing the X-E1 with the old sensor and processor, and we are starting the new cycle with the X100S".

 

I completely agree with your comments.  I had decided to buy an X-E1 about 10 days before the X100S annoucement.  Luckily for me, I knew that this date was scheduled for something big to be made public so held off on my purchase.  I was going to buy the X-E1, the zoom lens, and the 35mm f/1.4 lens.  After seeing this announcement, the X-E1 looks quite dated, especially AF wise so I canceled my purchase.   

 

With the X100S news, we clearly see what the X-E2 will be like, whenever it is brought to market.  It will have substantially better autofocus as well as many other improvements.  I can wait for that.  

 

I'd be more than a little disappointed if I had bought the X-E1 and then just 1 week later saw this X100S announcement.


Fujifilm cameras currently owned: F10, F20, F70EXR, X10, XF1, X100, S5 Pro (with Nikkor 24mm f/1.4), GA645, and Instax 7S.

#40 Ratty Mouse

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:49 AM

I'm not so sure that increasing the size of the sensor requires increasing the size of the camera and lenses. 

Well, you should be sure because FUJIFILM themselves have come out and said that the XF lenses will not cover a full frame sensor.  It does not get more authentic than that.


Fujifilm cameras currently owned: F10, F20, F70EXR, X10, XF1, X100, S5 Pro (with Nikkor 24mm f/1.4), GA645, and Instax 7S.

#41 Arjay

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:17 AM

I completely agree with your comments.  I had decided to buy an X-E1 about 10 days before the X100S annoucement.  Luckily for me, I knew that this date was scheduled for something big to be made public so held off on my purchase.  I was going to buy the X-E1, the zoom lens, and the 35mm f/1.4 lens.  After seeing this announcement, the X-E1 looks quite dated, especially AF wise so I canceled my purchase.  

 

I wonder which imminent Fuji innovation that is going to be published immediately prior to the introduction of the X-E2 will stop you from ordering that one... ;)


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#42 WESTMILL

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:20 AM

I can not help but wonder if some people buy these cameras without ever finding out about them first. They are not and never have been or never pretended to be an SLR.

They are an alternative !  They offer a different way of working. They have more in common with medium format type cameras than they do an SLR. The Pro 1 was painfuly slow but that did not stop people from loving them or the experience they gave or give. The E1 came along and the Pro 1 bennafitted too. Much faster focus. Then the zoom with its linear driven motor gave both cameras even more speed. I find the autofocus to be more than good enough for its intended use. It is not and never was intended as a camera for sports. Faster autofocus is always a nice thing to have, But with these cameras its use is very limited anyway. It would be a different story if they offered any form of focus tracking, but they simply do not. No matter how fast it will focus, if you are shooting a moving subject, the subject is going to move out of focus, because there is no true CF in the first place. Even when you lock focus with using CF it locks on first pressure. To my way of thinking, less EVF lag would be far better or useful than faster focus. Knowledge is the key to enjoyment with these cameras I think. They force you to think about every aspect just like using medium format. The images it produces when you get it right are oustanding.

They are not cameras that will suit everyone. If you need the flexability of an SLR then nothing but an SLR will do. Personly I love everything about the E1. It is a joy to use.

It is a total different way of working than with my Nikons. The difference is, I do not try and compare them. I can tavel to another country, I could go by Ship or Plane ! both do the same job but both are two completely different experiences. You would not dream of compairing the two. Its the same with cameras for me. :)


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E1 with i shoot grip, 8mm samyang, fuji 14mm and 60mm EF42 Flash

#43 Jesper Frickmann

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:29 AM

I think that it is unfair to blame Fuji for announcing some new technology four months after they announced E1. They have to release new products regularly and they needed E1 out to get their share of the xmas sale. They put in the best tech they had ready for the market at the time when the design was frozen. What is unusual is that they announce new products over three months before they hit the stores. Compare that with eg. Apple.

#44 Arjay

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:50 AM

Well, there are only a limited number of events that are suitable for new product announcements. The CES is an occasion that only few companies can afford to ignore ... Although  I agree with you, that announcing the new camera more than three months before launch is somewhat early.



#45 nixda

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:11 AM

I think that it is unfair to blame Fuji for announcing some new technology four months after they announced E1. They have to release new products regularly and they needed E1 out to get their share of the xmas sale. They put in the best tech they had ready for the market at the time when the design was frozen. What is unusual is that they announce new products over three months before they hit the stores. Compare that with eg. Apple.

 

I completely understand that Fuji needed to get the X-E1 to the market for the Holidays. They couldn't have waited any longer anyway, otherwise the whole thing would have been even more awkward.

 

What I don't quite understand is that a lot of people bought into the X-E1 knowing full well that there are certain issues with it (think autofocusing, for example), but it's otherwise a tremendous system, and these people are willing to work with and around those issues. But then Fuji, a short while later, announces "Hey, we are listneing to our customers, and we have addressed the autofocusing issues that everyone is complaining about. And see, tataa, we have a much better system. Too bad we didn't put it into the X-E1." 

 

Regarding CES and other such events, the perceived pressure of companies having to announce or release products during these events has caused a lot of problems. Products are often not ready when the CES rolls around, and sometimes they are sitting on the shelves waiting for the CES. More and more companies are moving away from such events and hold their own events when they see fit. I hope camera makers will do the same soon.

 

Anyway, enough said. I am enjoying my X-E1. The autofocus system is not what I got it for, but it would have been handy to have the new capabilities, so that I wouldn't have to grab that dreaded D7000 any more :D  And yes, I will likely upgrade to the X-E3 when it comes out. Yes, 3.  :)



#46 GLYA

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

Some years ago I bought a lumix G2. As soon as I start using it there was a lot of rumors about a GH3, now I finally bought an X-E1. I sold my Nikon and lenses and I'm quite happy with this new cam...I've not walk around all features. AF could be better for sure, but I'm also using a lot of legacy lenses with manual focus so its ok for me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yveslagache/

 

 


#47 opskoewel

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

Could you tell me if you are having difficulties focusing with the legacy lenses or is it easy?



#48 GLYA

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

No I don't have much difficulties. I choose the X-E1 because of its EVF and possibilities to adapt the view to my glasses....The best thing to do is to focus whith the lens open at its max, then change the opening to 5,6/8/11 or what you need and shot....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yveslagache/

 

 


#49 Jesper Frickmann

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:16 PM

What I don't quite understand is that a lot of people bought into the X-E1 knowing full well that there are certain issues with it (think autofocusing, for example), but it's otherwise a tremendous system, and these people are willing to work with and around those issues. But then Fuji, a short while later, announces "Hey, we are listneing to our customers, and we have addressed the autofocusing issues that everyone is complaining about. And see, tataa, we have a much better system. Too bad we didn't put it into the X-E1." 

 

Regarding CES and other such events, the perceived pressure of companies having to announce or release products during these events has caused a lot of problems. Products are often not ready when the CES rolls around, and sometimes they are sitting on the shelves waiting for the CES. More and more companies are moving away from such events and hold their own events when they see fit. I hope camera makers will do the same soon.

 

Anyway, enough said. I am enjoying my X-E1. The autofocus system is not what I got it for, but it would have been handy to have the new capabilities, so that I wouldn't have to grab that dreaded D7000 any more :D  And yes, I will likely upgrade to the X-E3 when it comes out. Yes, 3.  :)

The new technology wasn't ready when they froze the design. Give'm a break, things take time to develop. And they did waay better than Canon with EOS-M :)

 

I appreciate that they give customers an early heads up. They actually hurt their own sales by doing that.

 

And have fun with your X-E1!



#50 Ratty Mouse

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

I wonder which imminent Fuji innovation that is going to be published immediately prior to the introduction of the X-E2 will stop you from ordering that one... ;)

 

I have purchased 12 FUJIFILM cameras in the past 15 years or so.  This is the FIRST time I have put off one due to a product announcement.   Thankfully, FUJIFILM does not ordinarily obsolete one of their recent introductions so quickly.   I hope this is not a new trend for them.  You might wish differently. 


Fujifilm cameras currently owned: F10, F20, F70EXR, X10, XF1, X100, S5 Pro (with Nikkor 24mm f/1.4), GA645, and Instax 7S.

#51 Arjay

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:30 AM

You might wish differently. 

I choose to ignore this comment.



#52 David Schneider

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

 
I'd be more than a little disappointed if I had bought the X-E1 and then just 1 week later saw this X100S announcement.

There are many reasons to buy a camera or camera system and as one who purchased the X-E1 in Dec., I could personally care little about the X100S announcement. In my case I was looking for a reasonably lightweight camera for travel that would yield better files than the really nice and smaller Canon G15 and be reasonably close to my Canon 5dmk2. Interchangeable lenses are more important to me than the latest sensor. I expect Canon to constantly upgrade every three years and Hasselblad about the same. The fact that Fuji came out with the X-E1 so quickly after the XPro1 and keeps improving the X100 line seems to mean that Fuji has a much shorter model upgrade timetable than other companies. I have no idea if that is current corporate policy or they are just moving aggressively in the mirror- less market. And I don't really care. I can't say what I might do in a year or two. Maybe buy the X-E2 and sell my X-E1 or keep it as a back-up. Or sell it and move to whatever meets my needs at the time. Purchasing a camera or system is not like ancient days when you would expect your Hassie or RB67 or even you Nikon to last five or ten years.

#53 zephyr2013

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

There are many reasons to buy a camera or camera system and as one who purchased the X-E1 in Dec., I could personally care little about the X100S announcement. In my case I was looking for a reasonably lightweight camera for travel that would yield better files than the really nice and smaller Canon G15 and be reasonably close to my Canon 5dmk2. Interchangeable lenses are more important to me than the latest sensor. I expect Canon to constantly upgrade every three years and Hasselblad about the same. The fact that Fuji came out with the X-E1 so quickly after the XPro1 and keeps improving the X100 line seems to mean that Fuji has a much shorter model upgrade timetable than other companies. I have no idea if that is current corporate policy or they are just moving aggressively in the mirror- less market. And I don't really care. I can't say what I might do in a year or two. Maybe buy the X-E2 and sell my X-E1 or keep it as a back-up. Or sell it and move to whatever meets my needs at the time. Purchasing a camera or system is not like ancient days when you would expect your Hassie or RB67 or even you Nikon to last five or ten years.

 

Right, lasting 1 year is good :-)

 

I also don't care about the X100S, I want an interchangeable lens camera with no AAF ... 

 

I had Olympus EP1 last time when it first came out, and about five months later EP2 came out, and I bought EP2 as it  could accept an external EVF, and can tilt just like the Sony RX1's (and i think the new Leica M), really good.  I probably will buy X-E2 for focus peaking but if they don't fix (yes, fix, not improve) the EVF lag, then I can forget about it.  That lag makes the Fuji EVF primitive, I'm fine with it just because I am more tolerant, but i won't try to justify the defect to anyone who asks me.


Edited by zephyr2013, 13 January 2013 - 10:46 AM.


#54 MIGpilot

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:55 AM

I have had this Xe1 one week now.  If Fuji put out on the market a X-Pro1 1 or a Xe 2 .  It better have a Full frame sensor like SONYS RX1.  I prefer interchangable lens capabilities too as a must.  But would that also put FUJI to produce a new line of lens if the FULL FRAME  idea became fact,   ---------- MAYBE?   --------------------RAF



#55 DGS

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

I wonder which imminent Fuji innovation that is going to be published immediately prior to the introduction of the X-E2 will stop you from ordering that one... ;)

:lol:  Man, I should have dumped my M3 years ago, as soon as the M4 came out! Who needs that awesome viewfinder, anyway, when I can get extra frame lines and a rewind crank!!


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#56 bigal1000

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

:unsure:

So, how long do we think before an X-E2 or an XPro2, with the X100S's hybrid focussing, focus peaking etc? A year? Less? And who's planning to put their existing cameras on EBay when that happens?

Hell I just bought one at least a year or more I hope...



#57 TropicalYankee

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

The XE-2 will ship as soon as internet trolls start complaining about it and speculating about the XE-3.



#58 bigal1000

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:01 PM

The XE-2 will ship as soon as internet trolls start complaining about it and speculating about the XE-3.

+1



#59 MattNordSB

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:33 PM

Honestly, who cares when it comes out? No one is forcing you to buy it instantly! You can wait over a year, and it would have the exact same effect on your photography as if it would have come out then. I think this is a big non issue.
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#60 GLYA

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:43 AM

Honestly, who cares when it comes out? No one is forcing you to buy it instantly! You can wait over a year, and it would have the exact same effect on your photography as if it would have come out then. I think this is a big non issue.

Agreed, who cares ! There are enough good issues in the X-E1 to shoot...


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