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162 replies to this topic

#16 iPretz

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

Well said.

#17 rocky cosmos

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:42 AM

The argument about buying into a system and investing in lenses makes a lot of sense to me. I'm not really sweating about an X-E2 coming out after I just bought an X-E1. But I am wondering if Fuji eventually offers an X camera with a full-frame sensor (which seems like a distinct possibility), whether the existing XF lenses will work on a FF sensor camera (with the obvious adjustment in focal length). And would they work optimally?

#18 joe aka back alley

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:10 PM

fuji has said that the current x lenses are not suitable for full frame...i doubt that they will add a full frame body ever.

one of the reasons for the trans x sensor is to match ff quality...


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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:02 PM

The argument about buying into a system and investing in lenses makes a lot of sense to me. I'm not really sweating about an X-E2 coming out after I just bought an X-E1. But I am wondering if Fuji eventually offers an X camera with a full-frame sensor (which seems like a distinct possibility), whether the existing XF lenses will work on a FF sensor camera (with the obvious adjustment in focal length). And would they work optimally?

The lenses are too small to work on full frame. However its possable that the full frame could have a DX feature like Nikon full frame cameras. I have doubts that fuji has even thought of full frame though. I think it will be a few years yet if they do. Although I am happy with the quality of the X APSC for now. :)

#20 MMG

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:16 PM

I'm buying a new X-E1 on my lunch break tomorrow. I can't wait for a year for a possible feature bumped x-e2, without a proper camera (sold my x100 two weeks ago) and trying to everything with my iPhone. 

#21 Tailwagger

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

Its funny.  No one back in the day would have ever expected a lens for a medium format camera to be usable on a 35mm camera, let alone the other way around. It was only the primitive capabilities of initial digital technology that resulted in the use of 35mm glass on 35mm bodies with sensors that were well shy of 35mm. That occurrence warped the psychology behind the notion of interchangeable lens systems to a point were I pity Canon and Nikon.  Many users these days expect their glass to work regardless of sensor size up or down. But the manufacturers are in a bind as relying on their current lens offerings means putting a far bigger lens than necessary on a small body which winds up defeating the purpose of having the smaller body in the first place. If instead they make the investment to create new lens families specifically designed to these form factors, everyone gets up in arms over a loss of interchangeability and backward compatibility with the old glass.  Conversely, Fuji lenses, being specifically designed from the start for the sensor size can be cheaper for the same or better quality level and far more compact, but, as been pointed out, wont ever work on an FF as they were designed to spread light over a smaller sensor. So someday if Fuji does go FF, many will bash them for the same reason.


When buying into any modern digital system, its seems to me worthwhile to carefully consider the near and long term tradeoffs of sensor size in terms of portability, lens and and accessory cost, size of the files you'll be shuffling around, computing power, monitors, print size etc. Its really no different then when my father took the plunge into medium format, rejecting 35mm for its IQ, but avoiding 4x5 and up for being too cumbersome. I choose APS-C and Fuji-X specifically at this moment in time, because I found my self needing to make the decision to move up to FF for the IQ or down to mirrorless so that my camera was with me more often.  My conclusion was that the X system and the obvious philosophy behind it clearly offered the best path forward into the future with respect to portability, performance, flexibility and system growth.  And so far, despite a deep desire for this new PD/CD hybrid AF split focus system in an interchangeable lens body right NOW... there I said it... I'm exceedingly happy I did so. Now when are those new Zeiss X-mount lenses showing up, dammit! :)

#22 rocky cosmos

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

I appreciate the thoughtful responses to my question about whether XF lenses will be compatible with a future full-frame-sensor camera, if it were come about. I'm not so sure that increasing the size of the sensor requires increasing the size of the camera and lenses. The Sony RX1 (IIRC the model) that just came out demonstrates that it's possible to have a FF sensor in a compact camera. That's why I'm hopeful that there might be a technological way for Fuji to develop a FF camera while retaining its compactness and the usability of XF lenses. One can only hope...

Perhaps this discussion belongs in an X-E3 or X-E4 thread :)

Edited by rocky cosmos, 09 January 2013 - 05:13 PM.

#23 opskoewel

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

This thread is actually about the frustration people feel with the X-E1 because we know it cold be better. Well, the X-PRO1 had the same problem at the beginning and got in "some way" a little better with firmware updates, but not "that" big deal everyone was expecting. So, the X-E1 is also not getting "that" better in the next couple of months, maybe a little, like the X-PRO1 had, but not "a lot", that most people expect. At the other hand, let's not forget "why" we have the X-E1! It is not because of its flawless system, it is because of its unique and superb image quality and ergonomics. Sony, Olympus, Nikon and now Canon are producing very good cameras that work mostly "better" than Fuji in most areas but nevertheless you see a lot of people thinking about changing "to" Fuji and, at the other side, almost no one changing "from" Fuji. And yes, Fuji makes probably the "worst" cameras in the competition, where a lot of things don't work as we would like to. But yes, they make also far and far ahead the better pictures from all the "compacts" available, and so, once "inside" Fuji, it is difficult to change back, even if it is "buggy" as it is!... 


We hope for better Fujis, o course, me too, but I must fully agree with Arjay, let's use what we have because it is SUPERB!!!

#24 Pixor

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:36 AM

The X-E1 is a superb camera that you can get a lot of pleasure from using right away. When you look at the economics, by the time you have a few lenses, the upgrade cost to change the body to an XE-2 later on is not that significant, if that's what you want to do. And I wouldn't expect an XE-2 for some time.

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#25 philg

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

I think the previews of the X100S with it fast autofocus,split screen & focus peaking and auto ISO + min shutter speed has got everyone excited.

I am one of those people,saying that I think the X-E1 is a great camera and will continue to use it.


Look back on all the great photos that have been taken over the years,auto focus was dream,bit like putting a man on the moon.

I think everyone should just get out and use the camera instead of worrying about it`s short comings.

#26 Jesper Frickmann

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:44 PM

I have a $400 Sony superzoom camera and I want something better. I have been looking at mirrorless cameras for about 8 month but held off because the market still seems immature. I was ready to order an X-E1 when the new X100S showed what to expect for the next X-E1. Now I will use my Sony a little longer. If I had an X-E1 I would use that and be happy too.

#27 AusPhotoHiker

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

My Bet: Not before 2014.


We might see an XPro2 announcement late in 2013.


If you need a camera now, buy one. No sense hanging out for a camera that isn't even announced.

#28 Jesper Frickmann

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:38 AM

Since I do have a camera I dont NEED a new one. But I WANT a better camera. So I have time. Since they already have the new chips and since the competitors are not resting I think there is a chance we might see a new X-E1 before xmas. There is also a chance that Canon or Pentax get their act together. Or a Sony NEX is a good allround camera for less money. So I am going to continue watching the market with interest!

Edited by Jesper Frickmann, 11 January 2013 - 05:39 AM.

#29 nixda

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

I agree generally with Arjay's comments earlier in this thread, but I do find it mildly upsetting that less than one and a half months after releasing the X-E1, Fuji introduces successors to sensor and processor. Product upgrades happen all the time, but when they happen within less than two months of releasing the previous model, there usually is a big uproar. Granted, the X100S and X-E1 are not the same cameras, but the sensor and processor lines are shared, so it leaves a sour taste nevertheless. They had the new, 'better' hardware but chose not to put it into the X-E1. Whether they still had stockpiles of the sensors and processors and needed to get rid of them, or whether they wanted to recoup money for their R&D doesn't really matter, that would simply be bad planning on their part.


Those who bought into a new system by getting the X-E1 and plan on keeping a body for years (I have and I do) would like to get started with the latest a manufacturer has to offer. So, it's not very easy to swallow when one buys a product as soon as it comes out, and then it essentially gets superseded two months later.


It would have been more nice for Fuji to say "we are going to round out the current X-Trans line by releasing the X-E1 with the old sensor and processor, and we are starting the new cycle with the X100S".

#30 Arjay



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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:55 PM

Would you have preferred to have the X-E1 delayed until Fuji would have updated the entire X-Pro1 electronics and firmware to support the new sensor and new technology? This simply doesn't make sense (also because we don't know which additional research e.g. phase-detect AF would require in an interchangeable-lens system). Firstly, the X-E1 has been designed and marketed as the cost-efficient "little brother" to the X-Pro1, and secondly such a step would have disrupted Fuji's financial planning for a continuous revenue stream.


Fuji is following a very logical path by evolving its product line one by one, and by introducing new technologies in a product where such an introduction will only incur limited risks.


The camera market has evolved a long way since cameras were marketed with product life cycles of three to five years. Fuji's two-year cycle is rather conservative if you compare it with the 6 months cycles found with other camera manufacturers.