31 replies to this topic

[cyberprimate]

The number 1 in the X-Pro1 suggests there will be an X-Pro 2 some day. Not for now obviously but it will exist.

What kind of change can one expect? Could it be an improved version of the X-Pro1 or more like its big brother with FF format?

[nat3970]

The number 1 in the X-Pro1 suggests there will be an X-Pro 2 some day. Not for now obviously but it will exist.

What kind of change can one expect? Could it be an improved version of the X-Pro1 or more like its big brother with FF format?

At this stage its pure guesswork....I think that if Fuji is really serious about addressing the professional/enthusiast end of the market (and they certainly appear to be serious about it), then they likely have full frame model on their X roadmap.


Too much emphasis has gone into image quality for Fuji to ignore the obvious benefits of going full frame. Beyond improvements in IQ (using same sensor technology but applying it to full frame) it would also facilitate going "wider". This is going to prove important in a camera format that is not ideally suited to going "ultra long". Eliminating the "crop factor" would be an important evolutionary step for X line particularly as they expand use of high end glass (Fuji, Leica, Zeiss etc).


There are few things Fuji can do to X-Pro line that would more clearly signal their ascendancy to the top end of the market than to offer a FF option.

[cyberprimate]

The X-Pro 2 you're describing would be logically even more expensive than the X-Pro1. That would be a lot of money. Cheaper than a Leica but one needs to have strong attachment to mirrorless cameras to not get a Nikon D800 and the like instead.

[whtchocla7e]

Going FF is a decision you make VERY early in the design stages.
If these new lenses are aps-c then don't count on a FF camera unless it's a completely different product line.

[cyberprimate]

Yes, designing another series of lenses for FF format along tne APSC series would demand a big budget. But how many lenses available does Nikon have for their DSLR? More than a hundred vs 3 for the Fujis…

[PraxisPictures]

weather sealing and a rangefinder patch for manual focusing would be pretty sweet.


how complicated would it be to add the rangefinder patch?

[siuleung]

Personally I would prefer a high definition EVF, around 5k, with focus peaking in the hybrid VF rather than an actual rangefinder mechanism. Maybe they can do a "digital" version of the rangefinder where a second sensor triangulates the focus distance rather than physical mirrors. The problem is I don't think you can use both a classic rangefinder along with autofocus, and I wouldn't be willing to give up autofocus.

[whtchocla7e]

how complicated would it be to add the rangefinder patch?

If a cheap film camera can have it, I don't see why an expensive digital camera couldn't.

[bwcolor]

I've been very disappointed in my X-Pro1. I thought that it would be a camera that I would warm up to, but I haven't. In fact, the fricken camera hasn't even come out. So, how can I know what needs to be improved other than say everything?

[flysurfer]

I'd like to skip the X-Pro2, but I am very interested in the X-Pro3, so can we please discuss this camera and its improvements over the X-Pro2?

Thank you!

[Arjay]

I admire your common sense, Flysurfer.

[jknights]

I'd like to skip the X-Pro2, but I am very interested in the X-Pro3, so can we please discuss this camera and its improvements over the X-Pro2?

Thank you!

Glad you said it
At this stage all I want is to get my hands on a XPro1 with a 60mm lens attached.

[cyberprimate]

The reality is that Fujifilm has probably been working on the X-Pro 2 already by now.

[zen]

The reality is that Fujifilm has probably been working on the X-Pro 2 already by now.

good job +1 they have been working on it for quite so time probably

[カメラマン]

No X-Pro4, it wouldn't sell well in Japan. (4 (shi) is unlucky number, as shi can also mean death)

[Moshiden]

The number 1 in the X-Pro1 suggests there will be an X-Pro 2 some day. Not for now obviously but it will exist.

What kind of change can one expect? Could it be an improved version of the X-Pro1 or more like its big brother with FF format?

Jesus, the X-Pro1 has even come out yet. Its like asking a pregnant woman when will she expect another baby.
My predictions for the X-pro2 will be lightspeed fast AF, MF will be done by thought, 2x full frame sensor. All
of this fitted into something the size of my breathe mint box =)

[flysurfer]

Its like asking a pregnant woman when will she expect another baby.

And don't forget to ask what things she will improve on when raising the second one compared to the firstborn.

Anyway, the next X-Mount camera is in the works, will probably be announced at Photokina and could be available in maybe a year. It will be a cheaper, smaller, lighter variant of the X-Pro1, basically a "consumer version" to further promote the X-Mount and the expanding lens roadmap. Fuji managers unofficially announced this camera at CES.

Money is made with selling lenses, so Fuji (like any other camera and lens maker) wants to offer a broader basis for this system. Just look at Sony or Panasonic, they have so many different bodies for their systems.

[milosz]

These discussions are always a bit amusing - how hard can it possibly be to throw in a rangefinder mechanism that works with the projected framelines and EVF? No biggie! Where's the full-frame mirrorless, that can't be a design problem even though there are a total of two full-frame mirrorless bodies being made, to the tune of $7k and 8k?

With all the amateur camera designers and engineers on the Internet, it's amazing how few camera companies there are...

[cyberprimate]

You're speaking about the X-Pro 7 here.

[viramati]

Come on Guys it's got to be the x-pro10

[peapopd]

Conjecture about this is as has been highlighted here,seems a wee bit silly.However,I LOVE my x100 and x10 and here are some thoughts about the xpro 1. There is no question in my mind that the reason the body is so expensive is that it is a direct shot off the bow of the m9 and has many similarities ergonomically to the Hexar Hasselblad.And,with the incredible improvements of the two I own,I truly believe this camera is going to knock everyones socks off.Certainly Leica should be quaking in their boots, .In fact ,i have purchased (with miles ) a r/t to tokyo about when the Japan release is occurring in order to go to one of my favorite cities and just have a blast (kyoto) the gion district. The subjects there,13th century wooden buildings,geisha women darting in and out among the shadows of the tiny streets , and beautiful zen gardens galore. I think it will be a splendid time to put this camera through its paces.I admit that I really have been waiting for this camera ever since the dawn of the digital camera age and despite inevitable bugs,this is the top ambition of my desires in the camera realm.Not having the money for an m9 and resenting the requisite cost of glass for Leica ,I think this will be perfect for my semi pro status.Is anyone else as excited as I am(and not afraid to say it) and going towards the end of the month? .

[cyberprimate]

I'm not as excited as you about buying one but extremely excited about soon reading hands-on detailed tests/reviews/comparisons by knowledgeable pros. Just can't wait.

[MikeS]

..I think that if Fuji is really serious about addressing the professional/enthusiast end of the market (and they certainly appear to be serious about it), then they likely have full frame model on their X roadmap. Too much emphasis has gone into image quality for Fuji to ignore the obvious benefits of going full frame.

This is deja vu all over again. Forty years ago one could say the same thing about "FF" vs. 6x6 or 645. Back then, I assumed them what wants or needs more detail would use the larger format. I did that for a few months, until I realized the using a tripod was the solution. Neither size format was sharp at hand-held, on-location shutter speeds nor the regular "FF" pace of shooting. Slow down, think it out, in some cases use auxiliary lighting to control contrast and put the camera hard against something when ever possible when needing maximum image quality. Using that approach, the question of format between "FF" and 6x6 was not a concern of my editor. (And, I scored 94 for 100 in rifle qualification, so it was not that I had problems with holding still!.) Image stabilization is now the thing, but holding still is yet the main part of the game. Image quality in my experience remains not so much a technical question to my mind as a question of techinque. Today, I am comfortable making the same point between APS-C and FF sensors.

An APS-C at 16mp will make an outstanding 300 line print out to some 11x16 inches. Increases in print size follow the area or a square function rule. I accept the possibility of exceptionally high quality 11x16 prints out of a small camera bag of 5x12x6 inches that weights ~5 pounds or 2kg all up. Maybe a "FF" sensor will pull another million shades of color, another 1/2 stop of dynamic range and make a 20 by something inch print. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Bigger, heavier, costlier, but better? When is good enough, well...good enough....? The "obvious benefits" of "FF" are not all that obvious. Rather, a reasoned compromise has been made by Fujifim, who feel ongoing advances in sensor/processor technology make APS-C a fit and proper basis for an excellent camera system.


On the technical side of things, Leica had to wait until a special "FF" sensor was developed by Kodak to maintain Leica's lens quality "at the back plane" of a FF digital camera. The sensor cells at the edges of the sensor are angled slightly to maintain sharpness in the M9 using wide angle lenses with the range finder's short back focus. (See Leica web page discussions now eons ago). Leica went to a lot of trouble to stay with 35mm sensor size for several reasons, but also several years ago. Sensor density has improved, electronic processing has improved, never mind a host of other, ongoing improvements that make APS-C a viable technical solution as replacement for the traditional 35mm film camera. At least the market place is becoming comfortable with that notion or this forum would not be attracting such a following.

[pavig]

My guess is the xPro2 will be an SLR. If fuji adds contrast detect AF, but retains their great sensor and controls, they can push their x-mount lens system quite far. They've proven that a retro, tightly focused feature set works in the market. I think they'd do well having a family of cameras that fits the same design philosophy.

I haven't looked closely enough at the optics to figure if their current line of lenses would adapt to a longer flange distance, but wouldn't be surprised to find that have such a trick up their sleeve. If fuji x became a full system, they'd be able to make it a compelling alternative.

[parka]

My guess is the xPro2 will be an SLR. If fuji adds contrast detect AF, but retains their great sensor and controls, they can push their x-mount lens system quite far. They've proven that a retro, tightly focused feature set works in the market. I think they'd do well having a family of cameras that fits the same design philosophy.

I haven't looked closely enough at the optics to figure if their current line of lenses would adapt to a longer flange distance, but wouldn't be surprised to find that have such a trick up their sleeve. If fuji x became a full system, they'd be able to make it a compelling alternative.

If it's a DSLR, then it would be not much different from all other DSLR out there.

[artuk]

My guess is the xPro2 will be an SLR. If fuji adds contrast detect AF, but retains their great sensor and controls, they can push their x-mount lens system quite far. They've proven that a retro, tightly focused feature set works in the market. I think they'd do well having a family of cameras that fits the same design philosophy.

I haven't looked closely enough at the optics to figure if their current line of lenses would adapt to a longer flange distance, but wouldn't be surprised to find that have such a trick up their sleeve. If fuji x became a full system, they'd be able to make it a compelling alternative.

I really can't see how that could work with the existing lens range - the flange depth is set by design, and you can only adapt longer flange depth lenses unless you don't want infinity focus. The only possibility could be if somehow the lenses were capable of focusing beyond infinity by some margin to accomodate a different mount - but I'm not sure how the physics of that would work out.

I certainly think the next X camera will be a smaller / lighter (features?) / cheaper body, perhaps with a less traditional form factor, and possibly without the OVF. To that end, you could see the market for a more typical SLR form factor somewhat like the Olympus OM-D using an EVF. I think an OVF SLR with a mirror is pretty much out of the question.

As for full frame... well, I'm not sure Fuji is in the financial and engineering space to support 2 different camera and lens systems, altghough historically they have offered all sorts of solutions mainly for medium / larger format. I am increasingly of the opinio that for digital "full frame" is becoming a meaningless term - in the same way that medium format users never talked about Canon or Nikon making a "full frame" (i.e. 645, 66, 69) format SLR. If you have no legacy system you are trying to be compatible with, then the format size is largely an irrelevance, although larger formats typically out perform smaller ones - so maybe we should be asking for a 645 X camera?

[Borge]

My guess is the xPro2 will be an SLR. If fuji adds contrast detect AF, but retains their great sensor and controls, they can push their x-mount lens system quite far. They've proven that a retro, tightly focused feature set works in the market. I think they'd do well having a family of cameras that fits the same design philosophy.

I highly doubt that the X-Pro2 will be an SLR. The current trend is to move away from SLR systems and move to mirrorless cameras.
I would be very disappointed if the X-Pro2 was a SLR even. The way the X-Pro1 is today is what I really like. I moved away from SLR's and I'm loving it.

[cyberprimate]

Would the X lenses be useable on FF sensor anyway?

[pavig]

Would the X lenses be useable on FF sensor anyway?

The x lenses would not be usable on an ff sensor. We don't however know how far they focus beyond infinity as they are drive by wire, so some surprises could be in order.

[Steve 16:9]

I think it will be really tough to put a full-frame sensor given the lenses, as I suspect that the lenses are strictly designed for APS-C. If that weren't the case, the lenses would be likely quite a bit larger. Given the depth of the body that also poses problems, as like the M9, light at the edges will likely not be parallel.

I'd like to think that the XP2 would go to phase focusing, which would improve focusing speed significantly, but I doubt that will happen. Olympus has been quite remarkable at getting pretty fast contrast based focusing, so clearly the technology is there. I have an Olympus, and it's faster, but not hugely, so we're talking minor improvements that might even be in the firmware capabilities.

I don't think the XPro Line will ever be a full professional camera line like what Nikon and Canon have. I suspect Fuji will follow the Leica path with an APS-C sensor, and continue to improve that full frame becomes less of an issue, and they'll win on the compact nature of the camera. Fuji will likely never be the sports or fashion photographers go-to camera.

It would be really nice if they could improve manual focus, and that may actually be in the cards.