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Why Not X100 Firmware Update

X100

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#1 Jed Orme

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:11 PM

I understand that the X-Pro1 firmware update was basically the following: The two primary improvements were focus speed, and card write speed, both of which were done with new algorithms to improve performance. Manual focus also got some attention, adding a 3x magnification option and fixing the fly-by-wire focus ring performance. And an Auto ISO with ISO 6400 max was added. 

Would it not be possible for Fuji to make most if not all of these same improvements to the X100 firmware? Or at the very least give us something approximating the focus speed & card write speed of the the X-Pro1 & soon to be X-E1. I can live without fixing the focus ring because the auto focus button is a work around, but I imagine that would also be appreciated by many who still want true manual focus capability. What do you folks think?

#2 masty

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:04 AM

Heartily agree with you on this issue. Surely it cant be that difficult, and it would make the X100 an even greater camera. I do have issues with the AF speed insomuch that it is inconsistant.

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#3 hunz

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:57 AM

We live in hope.


:lol:

#4 ergoforce

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

I would be surprised if we see any further firmware update for X100.

#5 jdbish

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:32 AM

So would I.
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#6 BlackLE

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:41 PM

...maybe one more at least? :blink:


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#7 Jed Orme

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:46 PM

Maybe it's the second glass of wine talking, but I don't see any reason why we X100 owners should just accept the fact that it is OK for Fuji to provide some really significant firmware improvements for their latest X series cameras but then totally ignore the very camera that started this amazing product line.

Even from their point of view, since they don't seem ready to completely abandon the X100 & must obviously be thinking about selling more of them (recognizing that hobby cameras are a very small part of their business model & global earnings), it's kind of a no brainier to take what they already have developed & use it to improve an another current viable product. Particularly since the X100 owners are not only their core X camera customers, but also those most likely to stay with Fuji when looking at their next camera purchase.

Perhaps they need to take a lesson from someone like Apple & observe how they have carefully cultivated their core customers & focused on them to the point where they have gone from a minor tech company to a world leader. When Apple develops a new operating system, whether for their computers, iPads or iPhones, they make certain that it works for all of them. And guess what happens, their customers soon upgrade to the newest hardware. I know, I've been doing it since 1984.

So for me at least I question what is it that we X100 owners need to do to make this clear to whoever at Fuji makes these kind of firmware upgrade decisions. Letter writing campaigns, emails to whoever, tweeting, blogging, Occupy Fuji, or something more. But it appears if we do nothing about trying to get them to improve this already quite magnificent X100 camera, they will likely do the same.

Pardon my rant, but it truly seems that while we spend our time on this forum & others talking about the many aspects of this fine little camera, getting Fuji to make the same changes they have already made to the X-Pro1 & the X-E1 should really be more important to all of us. Cheers,

Jed
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#8 Anthelix

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:37 AM

I agree with you. One of the main reasons that made me choose Fuji is the fact that they opted for a continual improvement policy. Their products were far from useable when launched. But Fuji improved them by following the opinions of millions of users, not only a few specialists. In the contrary DSLR makers produce cameras that work perfectly from the beginning (normally), but never get improved during their life cycle, and then are less likely to be suited to the needs of users at a given time. With the policy, Fuji can be much more responsive to the trends of their users pool than other makers.
But if they were to stop their support for the X100 now, I think it would severely dent the corporate image they created. Only when most X100 users will have switched to the X200, then it will be time to end the X100 support. This camera has become very good, but there's still room for improvement.

#9 Arjay

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:30 AM

So for me at least I question what is it that we X100 owners need to do to make this clear to whoever at Fuji makes these kind of firmware upgrade decisions. Letter writing campaigns, emails to whoever, tweeting, blogging, Occupy Fuji, or something more. But it appears if we do nothing about trying to get them to improve this already quite magnificent X100 camera, they will likely do the same.

Let's stay peaceful, folks...

I presume that Fuji sees the X100 as a mature product that doesn't necessarily require the same attention to its current firmware as with the more recent products. The X100 has hopefully developed into a stable cash cow by now so that Fuji will be able to amortize a fair share of their product development investment. Fine for them and good for us, because it brought us the X-Pro1 and the X-E1. And let's not forget, the X100 today is meeting practically all of the design objectives it originally was laid out for.

I wouldn't hold my breath for further X100 firmware updates, but maybe a strong and vocal X100 user base can motivate them to provide further updates on a pay-for basis ...

#10 Anthelix

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:42 AM

I refuse to pay for bug and quirk corrections. However, I would be happy to pay for major revisions, with new added functionnalities, exactely as I pay for new versions of image processing software. I think it is a great idea which could help increasing the durability of our cameras.

#11 Jed Orme

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

I think Arjay's suggestion of asking existing X100 owners to pay for a firmware 2.0 upgrade is extremely sensible & mirrors what is often done in the computer world to allow the development of costly new operating systems. This gives those that are quite happy with what they have that option but still permits others to take advantage of the improvements. And it would also send an important message to all existing or future Fuji camera owners that they fully support their product lines. As for me right now I am very interested in the new X-E1 but probably won't buy it because I don't want to find myself in the same situation 2 years from now - owning another Fuji camera that is no longer able to be improved while Fuji focuses all their attention on their latest & greatest.

#12 golgo13

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:29 AM

The x100 doesn't REALLY need much anymore. Faster manual focus and that's all. Arjay said it correct. It's a mature well functioning product. It's my only camera and I feel very confident in it now.

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#13 Pietro Ferrari

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:58 PM

Really very fine words, but for have the Raw button free from the rear dial control block, must I wait the X200?

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#14 yamaha83

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

i agree that we need at least one more update... manual focus speed. and easy access to Auto ISO on/off. the fact that i need to press 8+ buttons to turn auto ISO on or off is just crazy to me...
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#15 PhoTom

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:23 PM

I don't know how solid this is, but I read this blurb on Steve Huff's web site regarding what a Fuji rep said during Photokina 2012. Quote: "The rep of at the booth said that despite the release of the X-E1 they have not let down the X100. There will be something coming." Hopefully this is true. While the X100 may not need any more updates (this is debatable), I think the potential for improvement is still considerable. And I would probably also pay for enhancements as someone else suggested. I would like to also see Fuji update the X100 FW to match the X-E1, X-Pro1-1 FW more or less. The Fuji X100 interface seems to have been taken from some of their older cameras and hopefully, given that these are premium X products, Fuji will want to bring the software up to a level that matches the excellence of it's hardware.

ref. to article- scroll down to X-E1 segment:

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#16 Luka Cyprian

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

I think Arjay's suggestion of asking existing X100 owners to pay for a firmware 2.0 upgrade is extremely sensible & mirrors what is often done in the computer world to allow the development of costly new operating systems. This gives those that are quite happy with what they have that option but still permits others to take advantage of the improvements. And it would also send an important message to all existing or future Fuji camera owners that they fully support their product lines. As for me right now I am very interested in the new X-E1 but probably won't buy it because I don't want to find myself in the same situation 2 years from now - owning another Fuji camera that is no longer able to be improved while Fuji focuses all their attention on their latest & greatest.



So the burning question now is... how much would any of us pay for a MAJOR firmware update?
$50, $100?

Let's say fw1.4/2.0 came out tomorrow and it offered faster AF, better MF, autoISO mapped to raw/fn button, perhaps a greater raw ISO range (100 to 25600?) and faster cold start.
What would you honestly pay for all this?

#17 jdbish

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:58 PM

None, my X-100 is fine just like it is.
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#18 yamaha83

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:25 PM

i would love the double exposure option as well...

auto ISO on/off integrated into the quick ISO selection option on Fn or Raw button
faster manual focus
double exposure

i would pay for that... how much... not a ton... but i would pay for those options.
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#19 Jed Orme

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:01 PM

So the burning question now is... how much would any of us pay for a MAJOR firmware update?
$50, $100?

Let's say fw1.4/2.0 came out tomorrow and it offered faster AF, better MF, autoISO mapped to raw/fn button, perhaps a greater raw ISO range (100 to 25600?) and faster cold start.
What would you honestly pay for all this?



Since I raised this question of how best to accomplish an upgrade to our X100 firmware, I suppose I should ante up. For an upgrade very comparable to what has been created for the X-E1 & made available for the X-Pro1 with v2.0, I know I would pay up to $50 & give serious consideration up to $100. Even without a crystal ball, it would seem that the used value of our X100's would be benefited by this & might even offset the upgrade cost.

#20 ergoforce

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:18 PM

I've not seen camera manufacturers charge for additional firmware updates? That means charging and billing systems are not in place which needs to be invested in. All the administration, staff, development and testing needed. I don't see how to provide such service and make it go round with $50-$100/update.

And since they are charging for the updates, making these to work and not cause ill-effects will be a new liability accountable for.

Now, the firmware updates are free and can be considered as a nice gesture or gift from the camera manufacturers.
That will change when they start to charge for it and I don't think it will happen.

#21 Luka Cyprian

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:06 PM

Since I raised this question of how best to accomplish an upgrade to our X100 firmware, I suppose I should ante up. For an upgrade very comparable to what has been created for the X-E1 & made available for the X-Pro1 with v2.0, I know I would pay up to $50 & give serious consideration up to $100. Even without a crystal ball, it would seem that the used value of our X100's would be benefited by this & might even offset the upgrade cost.



Something to consider:
Canon cameras have had the benefit of 3rd party firmware for quite some time, perhaps our little x100 will gain that support in lieu of Fuji-released firmware updates?

But I agree, if a hefty pay-for-update came out tomorrow... I would hand over $50 for it.
I good point was made, however, how would fuji distribute this update... are the logistics even in place?

#22 Jed Orme

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:50 PM

I've not seen camera manufacturers charge for additional firmware updates? That means charging and billing systems are not in place which needs to be invested in. All the administration, staff, development and testing needed. I don't see how to provide such service and make it go round with $50-$100/update.

And since they are charging for the updates, making these to work and not cause ill-effects will be a new liability accountable for.

Now, the firmware updates are free and can be considered as a nice gesture or gift from the camera manufacturers.
That will change when they start to charge for it and I don't think it will happen.


I'm not certain I understand why you think that this would be such an extraordinary thing for Fuji to do. This is not anything more than what every competent high tech company has been doing for some time. I really think that Fuji could easily manage this not very complex system of charging for an improvement for their firmware, just the same way they manage to charge for anything else they are capable of selling. No need to add people or systems to do it. And as a retired lawyer, I really don't think that liability exposure is any kind of issue, any more so than selling this camera in the first place. I would prefer to see us seeking ways to encourage Fuji to make some very needed improvements to an already quite good camera rather than giving them excuses not to do so. But, again, that is just my view, with which many might not agree. The X100 will alway be a great camera, but why not ask for Fuji to make it one of the very best cameras ever? Maybe they should want that even more than we might -who knows.

#23 ergoforce

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:56 AM

I'm not certain I understand why you think that this would be such an extraordinary thing for Fuji to do. This is not anything more than what every competent high tech company has been doing for some time. I really think that Fuji could easily manage this not very complex system of charging for an improvement for their firmware, just the same way they manage to charge for anything else they are capable of selling. No need to add people or systems to do it. And as a retired lawyer, I really don't think that liability exposure is any kind of issue, any more so than selling this camera in the first place. I would prefer to see us seeking ways to encourage Fuji to make some very needed improvements to an already quite good camera rather than giving them excuses not to do so. But, again, that is just my view, with which many might not agree. The X100 will alway be a great camera, but why not ask for Fuji to make it one of the very best cameras ever? Maybe they should want that even more than we might -who knows.

Yes, it would be an extraordinary thing to do. I cannot recall any firmware being sold for additional costs for any consumer product. That has been the difference between firmware and software upgrades so far. With the fast pace of new camera models Fujifilm cranks out each year, X100 will soon be out of production. You know the story; if you want something better, buy this new model.

I too wish there will be another firmware upgrade, but I am not holding my breath.

#24 Computer Controlled

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:35 AM

For me, the major fix that needs to be addressed is the minimum focusing distance. Having to flip to Macro any closer than 3 feet is rather stupid really. I think it could realistically AF down to at least a foot. I wonder if it would be possible to switch to contrast detect, and if that would pump up the focusing speed.

#25 tbhv55

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:02 AM

the fact that i need to press 8+ buttons to turn auto ISO on or off is just crazy to me...


For me, this is the single worst aspect of the x100. I just cannot understand why Fuji have failed to implement this, as it has been raised many times on this forum, and in other places. All that's required is a toggle On/Off, in the same way that the ND filter works on the Fn (or Raw) button. My x10 has a better (but not ideal) system in place, and it irks me that the x100 lacks this capability.

That said - while I probably would be prepared to pay for genuine advances - I doubt that I would pay for this, as I honestly feel that it really should have been implemented all along.
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#26 Northgrove

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:32 AM

OK, so it was just announced that the X10 will get a Firmware 2.00 with Quick (Q) Menu:

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This sort of raised my hopes for something similar for the X100. If not, the X100 is the only camera in the existing X series with no major update besides the often forgotten X-S1.

I've been thinking that Fujifilm may not intend to upgrade the X100 further in order to push these users to X-E1 / X-Pro1 (even if I understand these are not the same kind of cameras, but hey... marketing doesn't always make sense), but that theory was kind of thrown out with this move. Because the same reasoning could be made for X10 and pushing people to XF1. Which Fujifilm is apparently not trying.

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#27 Anthelix

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:42 AM

I payed approximatively $50 to update DxO Optics Pro (similar to Lightroom) to v7, and did not payed anything for minor revisions. If I can expect the same scale of improvement, I think $50 would be good price.

Except the Auto ISO switch, which I miss badly, another missing feature is the AF-linked spot metering (ie spot metering is done on the active AF-frame). When shooting concerts or theater (were the stealth x100 really excels), I have to spot meter on the face of actors or musicians, lock the exposure, then focus and shoot. If the light changed in the meantime, my shot is lost. On my Nikon DSLR, focusing and metering can be done at the same time. If necessary I would be ready to pay for such an improvment. This shows this camera can still be improved. ;)

#28 peterlloyd

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 06:03 AM

i agree that we need at least one more update... manual focus speed. and easy access to Auto ISO on/off. the fact that i need to press 8+ buttons to turn auto ISO on or off is just crazy to me...


I agree. I hate that lousy solution with the auto ISO.

#29 Captain Trips

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:53 AM

I cannot believe people are suggesting paid upgrades. Don't give Fuji ideas. This is not like upgrading DXO. We are talking about firmware, for a piece of hardware, not a software package. This firmware should already be there. I like my X100 and X-Pro1. But we should not be paying for FW upgrades when we have already spent a fair lump of money on these products. I have never done this with any other camera system.


Mind you it appears that a lot of people are blowing the FW issues, way out of proportion.

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#30 yamaha83

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:04 AM

OK, so it was just announced that the X10 will get a Firmware 2.00 with Quick (Q) Menu:

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This sort of raised my hopes for something similar for the X100. If not, the X100 is the only camera in the existing X series with no major update besides the often forgotten X-S1.

I've been thinking that Fujifilm may not intend to upgrade the X100 further in order to push these users to X-E1 / X-Pro1 (even if I understand these are not the same kind of cameras, but hey... marketing doesn't always make sense), but that theory was kind of thrown out with this move. Because the same reasoning could be made for X10 and pushing people to XF1. Which Fujifilm is apparently not trying.


it says in response to a large number of requests.... so i would just recommend submitting requests. email, twitter, Facebook. The more the better.
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