This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

M9 Monochrom vs Fuji X-Pro

Discussion in 'X-Pro1 and X-Pro2' started by slackercruster, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. slackercruster

    slackercruster Premium Member

    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    NE US

    -Return to Top-

    Anyone do tests with the M9 mono comparing it to the Fuji?

    OK, M9 has a bigger sensor. But is there a benefit to the BW translation?

    Why did Leica disc it? From what I could see, the camera sold.
     
  2. Alan7140

    Alan7140 Premium Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    Australia

    -Return to Top-

    Can't comment on the Leica Mono itself because I don't have one, but must point out that any Leica will sell regardless of whether it is actually any good or not. There's a very large group of well-heeled people out there who don't apparently know that there are any other cameras on the market except for Leica and Hasselblad. The same people who keep Ferrari, Rolls Royce and similar car companies in business.

    I'm not hanging it on Leica - my first pro camera was a 3rd hand Leica, but compared with operating the X-Pro1 even the latest ones really are a bit of a fossil in mirrorless design these days. They still produce superb result in the right hands, though, but oftentimes it is the case that given its ownership base those hands are less than proficient, which tends to unfairly dent opinion.

    If not for the fact that I can buy an entire Fuji outfit including lenses (plus the ability to adapt and accurately frame and focus my Nikon AI-s lenses), accessories and even a spare body for just the cost of a Leica body alone I'd probably still hanker after a Leica, but given value for money handling and straight out performance the choice really is a no-brainer for "normal" people if a mirrorless camera is your choice. However that red disk envy is a hard thing to shake....
     
  3. magicaxeman

    magicaxeman Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    356
    Location:
    Chelmsford,Essex, UK

    -Return to Top-

    Firstly the M mono isn't an M9, in fact it stands on its own as though it has similarities to both the older M9 and the newer M (240) its a very different beast from what I've seen not least of which is that there is no mono conversion as the sensor itself only records luminance, ie its a black and white only sensor.
    Obviously as it doesnt have a bayer array it doesn't need or have an anti ailiasing filter either the same as the X-Pro 1, this amongst other things has apparently allowed them to really push the ISO's through the roof, even further than Fuji.
    Lets face it its kind of like an X-pro owners dream, a full frame camera without the AA filter, its just that its mono only and for some thats a huge turn off.

    Not for me, I would love a FF mono only camera, but thats just a lottery dream.
     
    JasperD and djs3 like this.
  4. Viv

    Viv Active Member

    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    29

    -Return to Top-

    The Monochrom is too specialised for me. I am sure that in the right hands it will be capable of producing great b/w images, but whether these will be significantly better than X Pro output is open to debate.

    I have sold my Leica M9. its output was of very high quality, but I prefer the X Pro 1.

    However, if Zeiss ever produced a digital version of the Zeiss Ikon I would be first in line to buy it.
     
    Keith Cocker likes this.
  5. pszilard

    pszilard Huh?

    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    393
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia

    -Return to Top-

    For me the X-PRO1 produces beautiful mono AND colour. I don't think that the Fuji lenses are any worse than the Leica's (bring on the arguments LOL), and Fuji is way more versatile.

    Anyway, what ever stirs you. Just enjoy...
     
  6. AsylumPHoto

    AsylumPHoto Premium Member

    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    67

    -Return to Top-

  7. steve1401

    steve1401 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    UK

    -Return to Top-

    The M9 Mono sensor is black and white, it's not converting colour to black and white. As well as the lack of a need for an anti aliasing filter, each pixel only has to deal with two colours - black and white! This allows for much more light and contrast awareness and therefore the claim to have film-like capabilities The tones are, by all accounts, quite beautiful straight out of camera, with a great natural dynamic range and so on.

    Note - I understand the technology/theory, but don't have the cash to say I'm speaking from experience :)
     
    slackercruster likes this.
  8. JPHL

    JPHL Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    8

    -Return to Top-

    well, having XPro 1, M9 and MM on hand and even though I never made a real comparison it it absolutely obvious that while the Fuji can play in a similar league with M9 in some fields or even exceed it, it does not so in B&W compared to MM. Anyhow, both M9 and X-Pro1 are excellent cams, for color and bw!

    It is the eternal question about using a bw only cam versus a color cam.


    One thing is certain, both M9 and Fuji see virtually no use anymore. So to say, bw is MM and color is Canon 5DIII now.
    But that is just me and my prefs...

    all the best

    JP
     
  9. JPHL

    JPHL Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    8

    -Return to Top-

    As we still have a bit of daylight I just took the Fuji with the 35mm and the MM with the 50 2.0.

    Both set at 1600 ISO and F 4.0

    at 100% that the wayit looks when compared quick and dirty... and please remember, its only a tiny jpeg... but it is already obvious.

    [​IMG]

    All the best
    JP
     
    framus likes this.
  10. magicaxeman

    magicaxeman Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    356
    Location:
    Chelmsford,Essex, UK

    -Return to Top-

    That highlights my findings JP, not that I'm fortunate enough to have an MM to hand, but more that the fuji benefits from a contrast boost in post.

    Your images also show the increase in sharpness from no colour overlay on the sensor, I've noticed that before in astro cams, and even now a large portion of astrophotographers prefer to shoot with the B&W (luminance) only sensor, use filters in a filter wheel and post processing to convert the image to colour, the resultant images are not only sharper but the b&w sensor even using a filter seems to grab more light.
     
  11. Liam

    Liam Premium Member

    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Ireland.

    -Return to Top-

    Any possibility you could post the raw from each, or even the X-Pro1 only? The site would accept them zipped.
     
  12. steve1401

    steve1401 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    UK

    -Return to Top-

    I would never doubt the M9M being far superior at black and white than the XP1 - it seems an odd comparison to be fair - different sensor design altogether; M9M = 2 bit b&w sensor and XP1 16 bit colour sensor. This means there will be far greater light tolerances and tonal preservation.

    The test above (and I appreciate they were just a quick demo) also serves to represent the camera's interpretation of light - XP1 says 1/160 and the whites on the house look very close to, if not, blown and the M9M 1/250s and the whites of the house are well inside. That is unless the light changes a stop between takes?? Either way, the Leica's blacks look better...
     
  13. steve1401

    steve1401 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    UK

    -Return to Top-

    What is the colour overlay? The Fuji has an X-Trans sensor with no anti-aliasing filter, which the M9M doesn't need in the first place as it is purely black and white...

    EDIT: - I think you meant the 'colour filter array'... i.e most CMOS sensors have the bayer array design, where as the x-trans uses a different pattern and thus no requirement for a low pass filter in front of the sensor.
     
  14. mc5

    mc5 New Member

    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Nymphenburg

    -Return to Top-

    i doubt the M9M has only a "2 bit" sensor.

    IMHO the sensor is just missing the color filter array, taking the full range of (16 bit ?) gray scale with each pixel.
     
  15. TonyWilkins

    TonyWilkins Premium Member

    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX

    -Return to Top-

    It sure costs more than a shave and a hair cut - more's the pity.
     
  16. mc5

    mc5 New Member

    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Nymphenburg

    -Return to Top-

    think about D800 v.s. D800E or K-5II v.s. k-5IIs (;

    doh - they make us pay for taking the AA filter away - leica just did the same with the color filter array.

    can't remember, but have b/w films been ever more expensive than color films? (;
     
  17. mouren

    mouren New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    2

    -Return to Top-

    At least from the above example, the M seems to have a nicer, to my eyes at least, gradation, particularly the area below the roof.
    But I wonder how much of it is that due to the lens. Maybe you can try a shot using Fuji + Leica Lens?

    Also, Fuji being a color sensor, I wonder how similar the two can be after some post.
     
  18. lnbolch

    lnbolch Premium Member

    Messages:
    883
    Likes Received:
    341
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    -Return to Top-

    The D800E actually still has the filter in place, however it is toggled off. An extra step in manufacturing it.
     
  19. JPHL

    JPHL Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    8

    -Return to Top-

    Hello again
    Finally I had a moment to continue - this time I made a quick comparison:
    X-Pro1 with both Fuji 35mm & Leica Summilux 35 FLE
    Leica M9 with Summicron 50 (current)
    Leica Monochrom with Summicron 50 (current)
    Canon 5D III with both 50L and 50 Zeiss ZE 1.4

    All shot at 320 ISO, f 8.0, exposed at the goodwill of the cameras meter, handheld, all at 100%
    I am sure one could optimize each shot further - and the subject proves not to be ideal to show the subtle differences...

    X-Pro1 with Fuji lens
    [​IMG]

    X-Pro1 with Summilux 35 FLE
    [​IMG]

    Monochrom with Summicron 50
    [​IMG]

    M9 with Summicron 50
    [​IMG]

    5D III with Zeiss PLanar 50
    [​IMG]

    5D III with 50L
    [​IMG]

    All the best

    JP
     
    rdelbar and jknights like this.
  20. AsylumPHoto

    AsylumPHoto Premium Member

    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    67

    -Return to Top-

    Not bad. The Fuji combo could use a boost in clarity and sharpness and be relatively close. At least, close enough to where I don't feel obligated to buy the MM. ;)

    What version of LR?
     

Share This Page