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Printing problems.

Discussion in 'Fuji X Post Processing' started by Brian1940, May 17, 2017.

  1. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    I definitely agree.

    Printer icc profiles vary by paper batch and by OS drivers. It is a real world issue. It is why I decided to invest in the Datacolor Spyder 4 Elite system so I could do full screen calibration and printer/ink/paper profiles.
    I found that there were significant difference between paper manufacturer's batches as well as smaller differences between CIS ink batches. It is one of the reasons I bought a CIS (Continuous Inking System) for my printer as then you have a large batch of ink compated to a printer cartridge. Yes cartridge to cartridge variation can be large as well.
     
  2. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes PS and LR can mess up the printer profiles. Try a Google search for this and you find a multitude of references. I only print from PS now because of this.
     
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  3. Brian1940

    Brian1940 Well-Known Member

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    WOw, first good nights sleep since this profile problem arose. Woke up with a clear head full of beans and the crash........

    I have reported that printing in Epson advanced Colour with 22H and 32 V give a lovely result.......great but a big but.

    The Advanced Colour mode uses the printer to control everything, outside profile or at least as I understand it, have no part in the equation. A report on Northlight suggest values of +2 +2 are all that are required to produce neutral prints from the default.

    Just tried the same with ABW , same result, without correction horrible magenta, same correction, nice print.

    Now wouldn't that suggest that my much higher figures are needed to put something right in the printer rather then an outside Profile?

    Your thoughts and support appreciated as ever.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  4. Dirk Offringa

    Dirk Offringa Premium Member

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    The printer/driver combination has embedded calibration. If it's off, you can correct with custom profiles but that would be a workaround only. So yes, there might be an issue with the printer or the firmware. Or the driver! I'd suggest to test a print using QuadToneRip (QuadToneRIP Overview) because you can choose to use its own driver for the Epson SC-P600 printer. So you might be able to rule out any Epson driver and colormanaging related issues.
     
  5. Dirk Offringa

    Dirk Offringa Premium Member

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    But seriously, I re-read the thread and you never mention having tried to print from a Windows PC again. Wouldn't that be the first logical step in troubleshooting, since the ssue arised after changing from PC to Mac?
     
  6. Brian1940

    Brian1940 Well-Known Member

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    You are the second person today to suggest the try a Windows PC approach., the first was an Epson technician. Might be able to do that later today.

    In the meantime your link looks very interesting. However my OS is Sirra which isn't listed, also don't think the Epson Surecolour is either. Does that matter?
     
  7. Brian1940

    Brian1940 Well-Known Member

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    Tried it anyway.

    Now looking at a window titled Briantompkins Install command, lots of stuff and at the bottom " process completed" help, which button do I press next?
     
  8. Fujiphotog

    Fujiphotog Amateur photographer.

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    I was also told by the colour profile expert I use to print from PS, not the printer. I was also told not to use an iMac because the monitor cannot be colour calibrated with separate RGB channels. So I have used a MacPro desktop with a separate colour monitor that can be profiled that way. I suggest you try printing on a monitor and MAC set up that way. I have used this system for 10+ years with no problems.
     
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  9. Brian1940

    Brian1940 Well-Known Member

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    Having just spent the thick end of £2,000 on the Mac I don't think buying another monitor an option. Another point is that calibrating colour has no importance, I don't even have a colour option selected on any of my cameras.
     
  10. Goldingd

    Goldingd Premium Member

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    Hmm, I for one, will not suggest changing back to a Windows PC, you have a shinny new MAC, so keep it. Now....

    Color Profile for monitor. I have no idea if you can or cannot apply a color profile to a Retina Display, or an older Apple Display. However, this has nothing to do with the computer, just the display. If you want to do so, go and visit DataColors web page, or some other display calibration hardware/Software providers web page.

    Color Profile for monitor, and what you did or did not set up in your camera does have a point, perhaps not so much on a Retina display. It helps you see the images correctly, adjusted for your ambient lighting, the quirks of the display, and the capability of the display in terms of Color Space. The later not so important if yo are looking at JPEG files at sRGB color space. Important for RAW, TIFF, and other TIFF (i.e. PSD) formats, and for larger color spaces. Mind you, I have friends who swear on never using them and are perfectly happy.

    Color Profile for monitor and consistency of printing. Helps some, but in truth, printers put out that ink a bit darker (or is it the other way around) than what monitors typically show and even with perfect Monitor Calibration you may still not have a match. A bit of a argument on how to fix this. Some people just wing it, some use specific profiles in LR for the print section (if you use an print provider they have those profiles and directions, but not so much for home printing)

    And back to the subject. You are now on a MAC but I degrees, Windows print drivers, and Windows treatment on controlling the printer suck (IMO) and as such you should turn off that Windows Management of printing (in the print dialogs in Light Room, and I assume other programs) and use Printer/Paper/Ink manufacture ICC profiles. And as a bonus, if you have Windows print Management on, and somehow have ICC profiles in use, it gets worse. As for a MAC ( CAN A MAC GURU SPEAK TO THIS) I suspect the same.

    Lessons learned on odd prints. First, not turning off the computers management of printing images and not using ICC profiles. Second Not turning off the computers printing management and using ICC profiles at the same time (actually worse than first issue). Third Using the wrong ICC profile, typically wrong paper profile. Fourth, changing the ink, cleaning the nozzles, but ignoring changing consumable items like nozzles and print heads, some printers have three items to replace ( Oh, and a waste ink tray, but that does not cause color issues, just annoying error messages)

    EDIT: yes and I am reminded turn of Printer Manages Color.
    EDIT: And while in LR, you do not control the color space, LR insists on ProPhoto RGB, so even those JPEG files you want to be in sRGB are displayed in ProPhoto RGB.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  11. Brian1940

    Brian1940 Well-Known Member

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    One and two with this printer you must turn off the "Printer manages colour" to find the profiles.

    In fact the MD of Marrutt has set up and installed the profile and indeed printed from my computer via team driver, and he is totally perplexed.

    Latest, acting on suggestions I have tried a PC to control the printing, result, magenta.

    Apart from slitting wrists I think a total factory reset and reinstall might be best.
     
  12. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    Two monitor systems have huge advantages but also are difficult to set up initially.
     
  13. Goldingd

    Goldingd Premium Member

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    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  14. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    Like you aid earlier it might be easier to buy another printer. I moved from Epson to Canon as the Epson used way more ink than the Canon also seemed to waste ink doing self-cleans more frequently.
     
  15. Goldingd

    Goldingd Premium Member

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    Apparently I am bored (keep researching issues at the Forum) . About to get away from this computer and do what I am supposed to be accomplishing. But anyhow, googling "SureColor P600 magenta cast MAC" brings up several possibilities.

    One is: "It may not be a driver but an issue with color profiles. It is possible one or more of the color profiles may be corrupted. Go to Utilities->ColorSync Utility select and run Profile First Aid. See if problems found in profiles. ( Magenta cast when printing from any app in Moun... | Official Apple Support Communities )

    Another is: Green Cast No profiles, Magenta Cast Double profile.
     
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  16. Skyyton

    Skyyton Premium Member

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    You say that the printing worked fine when you first switched to Mac. What has changed since it was working correctly? Did you install new cartridges? Did you install new printer profiles? Did you change the type of paper you use? I would think that would help you troubleshoot the problem. If the only difference was new ink, then that would likely be the problem, etc.

    If you look at the print settings in Lightroom under Color Matching, is Color Sync checked?
     
  17. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    @Goldingd That is called ultruism rather than being self-centered and I'm OK Jack!
    :)
     
  18. Brian1940

    Brian1940 Well-Known Member

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    Just an update and a thank you to all.

    Never got to the root of the problem. However I have discovered a very simple workaround which actually gives a lot of control. Just print in ABW and adjust the tones. I was amazed how much paper varied, in fact one of the problems might have been using ABW with the Epson built in profiles obviously intended for their own paper. I don't know, but I have made up presets for cool, neutral and warm for the two types of paper that I use. Took a lot of test prints but the result was worth while. Although getting the right results might have been a bit hit and miss it was worth it.

    Once again thanks to everyone for their efforts.
     
  19. Goldingd

    Goldingd Premium Member

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    So, if I understand correctly, and I am not reading something into your last reply that is not their, you were using Advanced Black and White control in your Epson driver AND Epson ICC profiles. So you are using two profiles resulting in Magenta color cast. Now, you are using just ABW.
     
  20. Goldingd

    Goldingd Premium Member

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    Follow up

    I was researching what ABW might refer to and then, as Black and White, might be occurring here, if a specific ICC profile existed for B&W (no). And I got into Epson's web page. Getting to the point, following is a guide from Epson on Epson and printing photos using profiles, scroll Dolan for MAC section:
    http://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd3/cpd39134.pdf

    However, third party inks and paper? Then you need the third party's profiles, Probably available at paper mfg for paper profiles and with some luck the ink mfg might have some for the paper and ink and specific printer, cross fingers.wrong profile for any variable (paper, ink, printer) will frig it all up. If you cannot get profiles suiting all three variables then you are probably better off not using any ICC profile, ad you appear to now be doing.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017 at 4:24 PM

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