This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

TCL-X100 tele conversion len vs up-rezzing the 23mm?

Discussion in 'X100F, X100T, X100S, X100, and X70' started by Wakeboxer, Nov 28, 2014.

  1. Wakeboxer

    Wakeboxer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    Philadelphia

    -Return to Top-

    Has anyone tried this exercise? I'd be very interested to see the converter shot compared to the base lens with the image up-rezzed and cropped to match the teleconverter image and field of view. It would be neat to see this test done with a portrait, and also with a nature-scape with lots of detail.

    Any predictions on how the tele-converter would fare?
     
  2. Richard_R

    Richard_R Eclectic eccentric

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    5,886
    Likes Received:
    4,780
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia

    -Return to Top-

    I have three landscape shots of Melbourne taken from a tripod with the standard lens, WCL and TCL on my Flickr. I did post them here when the TCL first came out. If you want PM me your email and I will email you full size versions you can play with as much as you like.
     
  3. i am David

    i am David Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    Ireland

    -Return to Top-

    Hi Richard,
    Could I trouble you for those images too? I am giving serious thought to the TCL but no one I know owns one. There is nothing like real word examples to work from.
    Many thanks,
    David.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
     
  4. Richard_R

    Richard_R Eclectic eccentric

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    5,886
    Likes Received:
    4,780
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia

    -Return to Top-

    Send me a PM so I know where to email the pictures. They are just quick and nasty jpegs taken within 5 minutes or so of when I picked the TCL up. The purpose was simply to see the difference in the FOV between the three lens options.
     
  5. i am David

    i am David Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    Ireland

    -Return to Top-

    Thank you sir. I really appreciate this. PM forthcoming.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
     
  6. Mika

    Mika New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Germany

    -Return to Top-

    I were so happy with my x100s that I never thought about different focal lenghts at all. When the WCL was introduced I thought: Nah, what a toy! Later the TCL came out and once again I thought even more that those converters are kind of a bad joke, since I don't even like the focal lenght of 50mm. A couple of month forward and I own both of them. ABSOLUTELY worth the money! That said, I never croped or resized any images to archieve a more close up look and feel of a portrait, I am okay with wide angle portraits - a face in a place - and used other gear for close ups. But every focal lenght of my x100 offers different options for different approaches to taking portaits. I'm even fine with the 50mm equivalent now, though I'd rather have a 85mm equivent.

    That said, I bought both of the conversion lenses used in excellend conditions for a fractal of it's origin prices. Compared to interchangeable lenses it's most a bargain considering the image quality. I would not mess with crops and resize to try to emulate something you could archieve easily with those conversion lenses. It only takes some patience to wait for a decent used offer!
     
  7. Mika

    Mika New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Germany

    -Return to Top-

    To be a bit more technical. If you like shallow depth of field in portraiture you will never archieve the same look with croping from a wider focal lenght. Camera to subjekt distance would be different and being close to the subject has a huge impact on a shallow DOF. It might work with higher f-stops in landscape photographs though.
     
  8. Wakeboxer

    Wakeboxer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    Philadelphia

    -Return to Top-

    That's the whole point Mika. You take your stock X100 with 35mm equiv lens, position yourself further away from your subject, and the same distance that the teleconverter-equipped camera would provide the desired portrait, and then make the image with the 35mm equiv. Crop the image in post to match the tele-conveyer field-of-view, and you will have the same apparent depth-of field, as long as you view the images at the same size. That can be done by using "fill-screen," or that can be done by up-rezzing the file.

    For portraiture, up-rezzing the standard 35mm to the 50mm method will probably produce excellent results. The 23mm lens on the x100 is that sharp, especially in the center.
     
  9. rudiveestraeten

    rudiveestraeten Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Los Angeles

    -Return to Top-

    Thank you for starting this thread! I'd be interested in the result of your enquiries, so thanks for sharing it here, if you agree!
     
  10. AdamInNy

    AdamInNy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    NY

    -Return to Top-

    Not sure how much it will matter between the 35mm and 50mm, but at greater changes it's a completely different photo because the background becomes compressed. On my Canon kit, me shooting a portrait with my 50mm and 2.8 and cropping it to the FOV of my 135mm is a completely different look than shooting the 135mm at 2.8.
     
  11. Mandemaker

    Mandemaker Parsley sage

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Netherlands

    -Return to Top-

    I won't pretend to understand the mathematics involved, but I can say this: looking through a 50mm equivalent and pressing the shutter release is not quite the same as shooting with a 35mm equivalent and cropping later. It's the moment that counts, for me, and what I see in the viewfinder.
     
  12. AZFiLM

    AZFiLM Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Sacramento, Ca

    -Return to Top-

  13. trainer

    trainer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    2,360
    Location:
    upstate NY, United States

    -Return to Top-

    Hi AZ,

    The compression (perspective) in the photos would be the same if you are shooting from the same distance with the 50 and the 135. What would change is the DOF. Heres two shots, one at 18mm and one at 55 both shot from the same distance and both at F4.. THe 18mm is cropped to match the 55mm photo. As you can see the compression is the same however the DOF is greater with the 18mm cropped in.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If I were to move my camera back 2 x the distance of the 55 the and frame the same way the perspective would change (more compression) but the same DOF.
     
  14. Wakeboxer

    Wakeboxer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    Philadelphia

    -Return to Top-

    It's hard to argue with an actual test, which you performed, but it was my understanding that the depth of field in your example should be equal between the cropped 18 and the 55, (both images being made from the same camera position,) the reason having to do with circles of confusion, since you are enlarging the cropped 18mm shot in order to match output size. You would essentially enlarge the circles of confusion by uprezzing the smaller crop from the 18mm shot in order to match the 55mm shot. I'll have to do more research I guess.
     
  15. Wakeboxer

    Wakeboxer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    Philadelphia

    -Return to Top-

    Okay, I'm going out on a long limb and say that, concerning your photo of the bag with the 18mm, the focal plane is not precisely on the bag. It's actually between the bag and the desk, but the bag appears to be sharp, because it's within the hyper focal distance of the lens. In other words, your test is not valid. Now I have to think about that some more!
     
  16. AdamInNy

    AdamInNy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    NY

    -Return to Top-

    The depth of field won't be the same. Take a look at a portrait taken with a 35mm vs a portrait taken with an 85mm. The 85mm compresses the background more, provides more bokeh, different depth of field, etc.
     
  17. Wakeboxer

    Wakeboxer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    Philadelphia

    -Return to Top-

    Not sure you're understanding the point I'm making. Assuming the same camera position and distance from the person, crop the 85mm to equal the same --angle of view-- as the 85mm. The "compression" is the same, because compression is simply another way of saying perspective, and perspective has nothing to do with focal length, it has to do with camera position. Anyway, after you crop 35mm shot, enlarge the image so that the file has the same linear dimension, x pixels by y pixels. I believe the DOF will be the same between the two images now, since you are enlarging the circles of confusion in the 35mm shot.
     
  18. AdamInNy

    AdamInNy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    NY

    -Return to Top-

    Maybe I'm not, but for example. I was testing something a week or so ago and took this shot at 200mm to basically get the lights and background out of focus (test shot, ignore the actual composition, exposure, etc)

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/amazza/15832538771/

    Are you saying, I could take this same shot with say a 35mm, from the same distance, as in standing in the same place (I was ~12' from the person), crop, and have the same photo?
     
  19. Wakeboxer

    Wakeboxer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    Philadelphia

    -Return to Top-

    Well, first, add the final step to your scenario: uprezz your cropped 35mm image to the same pixel dimensions as the image made with the 200mm. Now, there's no doubt perspective will be the same, as the camera position is the same. You just have a wider angle of view with the 35mm. I'm sure of that. As far as the bokeh, or amount of depth-of-field, I -believe- it will also be the same, because when your uprezz the image, you are magnifying the circles of confusion. What looked in focus in the 35mm shot doesn't look as in focus in the enlarged shot, since you are enlarging the points of blur, the circles of confusion.

    Short answer to your question: Yes!
     
  20. AdamInNy

    AdamInNy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    NY

    -Return to Top-

    It won't be. Focal length (as well as sensor size) all play into depth of field. Now if you said, take a 35mm lens and move closer to the subject so it fills the frame the same as the 200mm it would essentially be the same. That said there is a reason why people don't generally take portraits with a 35mm lens and tend to got 85mm and up.

    I'm not sure if your original post was a theoretical question or if you're trying to decide whether you should buy the TCL-100. At the end of the day the TCL-100 will give you photos that a cropped image from a X100(t/s) on it's own can't, even if the difference is minor in this case.
     

Share This Page