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$900 dilemma, X-T20 versus X-T1

Discussion in 'X-T2, X-T1, X-T20, X-T10' started by bestremera, May 10, 2017.

  1. bestremera

    bestremera New Member

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    I have an X-M1 and X-T10. I'm ready to make an upgrade but a little torn.
    For around $900, I can upgrade to an X-T20 and get several features that I'm attracted to, not the least of which is the higher resolution X-T2 sensor so that I can make a nice, clean 20 X 30" print. I also love the touch screen for focus point selection. Being older, I also enjoy framing with the screen as well as the viewfinder.
    For about the same price, I can get the discounted X-T1. I like the weather sealing and the slightly larger body size because there are times that the X-T10 just feels small in my hands. The larger viewfinder is a real plus too. Because I like the Fuji ISO performance, I usually shoot with Auto ISO so that selector switch isn't such a big deal to me.
    Just looking for some opinions for those that are shooting with the 24mp sensor compared to the earlier one.
    Thanks
     
  2. spilla

    spilla Well-Known Member

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    You only have one path forward. Save a little longer and get the X-T2 ;)
     
  3. Bud Weiser

    Bud Weiser Premium Member

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    Or you get a nice used X-T1 for about $500 on ebay like I did and save even more coin. Put that extra money towards an X-T2 next year when they drop to about a hundred bucks ;)
     
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  4. LionSpeed

    LionSpeed Premium Member

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    Agree with spilla. T2 is a different animal comparing to its previous gen. T20 is nice but it's missing a few important features (dual sd card, much higher buffer, bigger & better EVF, vertical grip, WR, so on....) which are important to me. Lastly, for some it might not be any issue but for me it's essential "where" it was made.

    That said, X-E3 silver is around the corner which I personally would love to have a copy. :)
     
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  5. joe aka back alley

    joe aka back alley Premium Member

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    i bought a small cheap grip for the X-T20 and it solved most of the size problem for me.
    i like the camera and am happy to have the higher mp count...
    but what i really want is a nicely upgraded xe3...
     
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  6. nwcs

    nwcs Former Gear Addict

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    If I had to choose between the X-T20 and X-T1 I would pick the X-T20 every time. I had the X-T1 for well over a year and it's competent but I'd want the updates in the X-T20 which are much nicer than the things you'd lose in the X-T1 -- but that's just how I see it. Saving more for an X-T2? Sure, especially a good used one. Prices of Fuji stuff tends to be less on the used market compared to other makers so it's a good opportunity to pick one.

    Still, the best thing is to rent/try both and see what fits for you. The features of the X-T2 may not be anything you'll use.
     
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  7. CWRailman

    CWRailman Premium Member

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    Here is what Damien Lovegrove accomplished with the X-T1.
    Please login or register to view links

    I point that out only to demonstrate what the X-T1 is capable of in the hands of a professional and there are many other examples on this site. If you are producing above this level then you might need the 24mp sensor but for most of us the 16 is good enough. Personally, as I have done with my X-T1’s, I would by a previously owned copy but pay attention to the serial number. I look for numbers of 43 or higher or something in the 50 series. I have two in the 50 series and one in the 43 series. They feel different than the one I had that was in the low 42 series and of course they do not have the issues the earlier models had.
     
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  8. Greg_E

    Greg_E Premium Member

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    If you can't get a nice clean 20x30 print now, you are doing something wrong.

    There are a couple of $500 T1's for sale, one of them in the classifieds here. But I wouldn't go that way, I'd sell the t10 and go up to a T2 That $900 you have plus the $400 for the T10 will get you almost there for a used T2. I might even sell the M1 if I thought it would get me the rest of the way. The T1 is nice, I have one, but I wouldn't buy it again right now, I would find a way to go up to a T2, even if I had to wait a few more months for the used prices to come down. In short I'm not upgrading in the near future even though I think I want the T2.

    I've made clean 20x30 prints from 6mp images 10+ years ago, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 16mp images from our current cameras that would really make the prints that much better. The key is that the subject area MUST be in sharp focus, if you blow the focus, the entire print will suffer whether you have 6mp or 60mp. You may also want to change your paper, that can have a big effect on the print. When I was printing, I was mostly using matte papers and canvas. When the subject was sharp, things were great. If you missed by even a little, the large print falls down and produces a disappointing result. Things change, life gets busy, business goes down, and printers break... Therefore I stopped my wide format printing because I just wasn't taking enough of my own images to justify the costs, and there were no more clients that wanted hands on, high level supervision of their prints. Printer prices also came down so far that every idiot had a wide format printer and would undercut even my low prices to where it just wasn't worth the effort and back and forth with proofs (full image and 100% detail crop), etc., etc.
     
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  9. beakhammer

    beakhammer Premium Member

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    If resolution really matters to you, get the X-T20. You will adjust to the smaller size camera in time. If you are just posting on the web, or don't want to print large and don't often need to crop your shots, then you might like the X-T1 better. I am happy with my 16mp cameras, but I also feel sure that I could do different work with the higher resolution sensors. I don't believe that only print size matters, as people often say. There is a often a qualitative difference between images made from the new 24mp sensors, and those made with the older sensors, particularly with color and low-light subjects. It's not that one is always better than the other, but you can definitely do different work with the new sensors than with the old. Just go on Flickr and compare a bunch of images made with the X-T2, X-Pro2 and X-T20 to those made with the older models. Even displayed at the same resolution on your monitor you will quite often be able to distinguish marked differences between images made from the different generations of sensor/processor combinations. One professional photographer that I follow recently switched from his X-Pro1 to an X-Pro2; there was an immediate change in the way his images looked, with different color, tonality and finely rendered detail quite evident, even when viewed at the same resolution on my same old monitor.

    I have great images that I made with a 6mp cameras, as people here have pointed out, but 6mp was still limiting in many ways. I wouldn't go back to using that camera now.

    Eventually I will buy an X-Pro2, or an X-T20, but that doesn't mean I will stop using my older Fuji cameras altogether. They will remain great cameras, and sometimes I don't want or need all those extra pixels, but I have no doubt that I will prefer the newer camera overall.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  10. bacil

    bacil Premium Member

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    16mp si more than enough for 20x30 unless you need to crop a lot. If you need the touchscreen, the it's obvious x-t20 is what you want. If you don't need that, I would suggest x-t1 + more lens. And if one day you use manual focus lens (and it's addictive), x-t1's viewfinder is beautiful.
     
  11. spilla

    spilla Well-Known Member

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    I have an XT1 now and have invested in a good lineup of primes (16, 35f2, 56) and i also have the samyang 12mm and some adapted M42 lenses for telephoto. I'm saving for an X-T2 and then am going to convert my XT1 to IR
     
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  12. mikEm13

    mikEm13 Premium Member

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    It sounds like the X-T1 fits your hands better. You should not count out the picture quality of the X-T1 it is still amazing.
     
  13. bestremera

    bestremera New Member

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    Thanks everybody. All good food for thought. I had completely forgotten about the X-E3. Hmmm. I'm just going to have to play with an X-T1 and see how it feels. I'm going to reprint one of my X-T10 images to 16 X 24 and 20 X 30. When I did that test with my Canon 60D I started to see the pixelation at the larger size. Not bad, but there. Having made 16 X 20 prints from my old Bronica, I like to see only clean, not 'hard edged' contrasty fine details and texture. And I also don't believe in that 'proper viewing distance' thing. I believe if you have a compelling image, it just invites a more intimate viewing. If it's good, people should be drawn in. But I do know that up to 16 X 24, the 16mp Fuji will stand up to even very high res cameras.
     
  14. Greg_E

    Greg_E Premium Member

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    You need better software, essentially you need a RIP for your printer. Even if you had 80mp I would still suggest running the printer with a RIP because a proper RIP will control the drop dithering and color mixing in a different way from the regular driver giving better results. Most often if you need to upscale the image, the RIP does this better as well since it can put dots "between" the pixels. Yes they can cost a lot of money, but if your prints are important, a proper RIP and proper color management are extremely important and should not be skipped.
     
  15. Jameskuzman

    Jameskuzman Member

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    I owned an X-T1 and had to part with it for reasons unrelated to my love for it, and am now nearing a point where I am once again shopping for a Fuji body.

    I too was looking at the X-T1 v. the X-T20, with the X-E2s thrown in for good measure.

    The draw of the X-T20 was a more compact body and the higher resolution sensor, but I actually found the body to be a little TOO compact even though I have relatively small hands. I really don't feel I need the additional resolution from the new sensor, nor have I seen much compelling evidence to suggest that the new sensor is markedly better in any regard compared to the old one. As others have pointed out unless you need to do some serious cropping, 16MP is plenty for printing to the size you've specified.

    The X-E2s was appealing because of the "rangefinder" form factor. I like the looks of it. Small, compact, clean lines. But it lacks the tilt screen which the X-T1 and X-T20 both have.

    The X-T1's biggest draw for me though is by far the EVF. Nothing I have ever seen (minus perhaps the EVF in the Sony A7-series) comes close.

    With the latest firmware update on the X-T1 you get lots of improvements (including the very useful zone AF feature) plus the tilt screen plus that marvelous viewfinder.

    For me, I'm going for another X-T1. I would like to have an X-T2 not for the sensor but for some of the handling improvements and the better AF, but if I'm honest with myself, I manually focused my X-T1 90% of the time anyway and none of the improvements in the X-T2 were issues for me in the X-T1 to begin with.

    Jim
     
  16. kitzhubsch

    kitzhubsch Member

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    @Jameskuzman you have just made me proud of my XT-1 ^^,

    I wonder if this thing would ever become vintage classic like Fm-2 from nikon or other legendary analogs. 40 or more years old already and the ebay prices equals second hand fuji oO
     
  17. johant

    johant Premium Member

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    Probably not ... electronics.
     
  18. shoessar

    shoessar Member

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    Remember (at least for me) XT1 is best for time laps photography. X-T2 sometimes take pictures with wrong exposure. Even everything is manual. I think may be sensor heatup issue etc. Time laps every '1 sec'. I took at least 30 time laps of 999 pictures with electronic shutter with XT1 all perfact.

    I agree 100% agree that XT1 is like FM3a and is lagend.

    BTW X-T2 is little bigger in size & heavy
     

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