Discussion in 'General Photography Discussion' started by MurrayMinchin, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:19 PM.
Thanks, Greg...that makes perfect sense.
Manufacturers don't use the term "full frame." Check any spec sheet.
I am not using amateur as a pejorative. I am indicating where the term originated. It did not originate from photo science.
This is just a personal opinion. I have nothing to back it up.
I thought manufactures began using terms such as full-frame, cropped sensor, and DX format when they tried to distance themselves from the "APS" label that linked their smaller format digital cameras to a smaller, unpopular, and discontinued film format.
Manufacturers never used full frame and crop sensor for format descriptions. DX Format is Nikon branding for their cameras. Just as lenses take designations, so have cameras. Spec sheets for cameras use APS format designations. Manufacturers never believed that it was inferior. (I worked for Minolta and then Konica Minolta in their camera division as a technical writer from 2000 to their closing in 2006. This includes the period when CIPA was finalizing their camera reporting standards.)
But it WAS inferior. In the early days it wasn't as good as the 35mm film and - even now - the APS-C sensor cannot take full advantage of the image circle for the FF (or 35mm if you prefer) lenses. Both Canon and Nikon have been very slow at releasing smaller size lenses for their APS-C bodies. That's really what gave Fuji an advantage.
On the front page of the Nikon website it says "Welcome to full-frame FX splendour like you’ve never seen it before".
Canon's site says, with reference to the 1D X, "Our flagship pro DSLR. 20.2 Megapixel full-frame sensor. 61-point AF system".
That is marketing. They took the the term from amateurs. CIPA reporting standards are different.
Manufacturers never said smaller formats were inferior to 35mm. Olympus even built a whole line around a smaller format. Minolta never invested in 35mm until very late. Again, image circle is irrelevant. 4x5 could never take advantage of the image circle of a 300mm large format lens, but it does not matter. The pace of product releases is relevant to what? What is "slow"? But previously you said 35mm optics were superior, so what is the issue of using them on a smaller format? And what exactly does this have to do with the origin of the term "full frame" in regards to 35mm?
I didn't say Manufacturers said smaller formats were inferior to 35mm film I (me not the Manufacturers) said they WERE inferior (in the early days). It took quite some time for digital to catch-up with film. Neither did I say 35mm optics were superior. I said larger sensors require larger lenses which are bulkier, heavier and more expensive. So the "issue" is carrying around bigger, heavier lenses that are needlessly expensive if you don't need them.
I'll try again. On paper a larger sensor will always be better than a smaller one (all other things being equal) because the extra physical size means you can either have more photo sites or each one can be bigger. The downside is the bigger image circle requires those bigger/heavier/more expensive lenses. As sensors (of all sizes) have improved over time - and improved substantially - so the theoretical advantages of that larger sensor become less useful in the real world for many of us. It's all about trade-off. If somebody really needs that greater resolution and/or low light capability then it's worth paying for the bigger (etc) lenses. But for many it isn't. Hence why Fuji X has become so popular.
So Nikon and Canon employ amateur marketing companies. Well you live and learn!
It was when you said "...Manufacturers never used full frame and crop sensor for format descriptions...", that confused me.
I guess Nikon and Canon have stopped being manufacturers, that and employing amateur publicists they must really be feeling the pinch.
No, camera companies have their own marketing teams and can make decisions purely based on target audiences. Since the amateur market is significant, they will tailor their message to that market. And so you can find popular terms in their material.
Come on man; lighten up. I'm pulling your leg.
Having such a huge hammer, I'm disturbed with all this talk of hammer chewers
You probably didn't know this, but those employed in the technical writing profession have been found to have a significantly greater statistical chance of being born without a funny bone. True. Look it up.
As that's a lot of what I do I must be an exception