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DAM 2017+

Discussion in 'Post Processing Forum' started by pszilard, Oct 20, 2017.

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  1. No, I'll just stick with LR6 for DAM

    18.2%
  2. Definitely, already have new candidate for DAM

    20.5%
  3. I'll switch as soon as I have identified a better product

    61.4%
  1. jonathan7007

    jonathan7007 Premium Member

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    I had missed entirely that Adobe announced the persistence of the database routines. I was pleasantly surprised to see this in the thread. Now I need to research the likely longevity of underlying database language that runs the LR routines...

    I will think about some form of long-term protection for stuff I care about but there a little less urgency, perhaps. Maybe 16-bit TIFF exports of certain folders every night as a kind of housekeeping.

    TIFFs seem way more utilized around the globe than DNGs. Will someone here be able to add experience with DNGs that would change my idea? Better "re-development"? (Not a real word, I know.)
     
    jknights likes this.
  2. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    Well the ability to use LR v6.14 forever is my strategy as I have little intention of buying new cameras past my X-T2, maybe GFX, Nikon D850, D500 and the cameras supported before these.
    My COP v11 provides better editing control of RAW images as well as some layer functionality, so better than LR, but not the great DAM that LR provides. My ultimate edit tool remains Photoshop CS6 with a plethora of Actions and Plugins. I also dabble with Luminar 2018 and On1 PhotoRAW 2018.
     
  3. jonathan7007

    jonathan7007 Premium Member

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    Jknights, I don't mind switching de-mosaicing software. It's fun (well, at least interesting) to chase better development results. I did that years ago trying different companies' chemistries for B&W film.
    It's the problem posed by a new database when I want to find images in the future.
     
  4. bralk

    bralk Premium Member

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    Archival guidelines from Library of Congress:

    • Photographs - Digital

    Preferred:

    1. Faithful representation of the work
      1. Equal in quality to the published version or master copy
      2. In the same format as the master copy
    2. Technical characteristics
      1. Highest resolution available, not rescaled or interpolated
      2. Highest bit depth available, 16 bits per channel if available
      3. Embedded color profile or specified color space used in published version
      4. Uncompressed
      5. Unlayered
    3. Formats, in order of preference
      1. Please login or register to view links (*.tif)
      2. Please login or register to view links (*.jp2)
      3. Please login or register to view links (*.png)
      4. Please login or register to view links (*.jpg)
      5. Please login or register to view links (*.dng)
      6. Please login or register to view links (*.bmp)
      7. Please login or register to view links (*.gif)
     
  5. Dirk Offringa

    Dirk Offringa Premium Member

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    I find it weird that .DNG is considered as an archival format "equal in quality to the published version or master copy", .dng being an archival format for raw files, not for finished images.
     
  6. John Beardsworth

    John Beardsworth Premium Member

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    Why odd? The DNG specification covers raw and finished image data, and a DNG usually contains one or more rendered (ie finished) previews. After all, it was designed to be an archival format.
     
  7. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    Rightly or wrongly I never consider DNG for finished images. I think the preferred order as published is very considered.
    I would always go TIFF for final output e.g. storage, printing. However for internet I would use JPG or PNG or BMP.

    Just my thoughts and practices. No right way necessarily.
     
  8. Dirk Offringa

    Dirk Offringa Premium Member

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    Are previews (even high quality 1:1) to be considered as "equal in quality to the published version or master copy"?
     
  9. John Beardsworth

    John Beardsworth Premium Member

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    It depends what counts as "finished". In many cases where you don't need pixel editing, a DNG contains both the original raw data and the final adjusted image (as its embedded preview). It is both the master copy and the published version.
     
  10. jonathan7007

    jonathan7007 Premium Member

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    For DNG users:
    If you pick DNG as a way to future-proof certain images, can you or a future user view BOTH the last edits performed on that RAW in any de-mosaicing software OR "reset" to see and use the original RAW? My office torn up for construction but In the near future I could try this test. I have CaptureOne that I should be using more and Iridient. My old license for PictureCode might allow an older version of their code to run, too. The old DxO is out for Fuji files... All the previous posts there tell me that desite what I read on an Adobe page the conversion/development step is so proprietary to each company's algorithms that the look of the image starts through a non-reproducable gate.

    The other role the embedded JPEG could have is to see what the photographer thought the image needed to fulfill their vision. In the future new tools might be available to re-create it in the hands of a new user. A kind of image AI reader that might do it automatically. (We're assuming here that there will always be a JPEG reader given how much content lives only in this format.)

    I have to do more reading about TIFF16-bit vs. DNG. My photos aren't all that interesting outside of my family and some clients, but I had some years during which I consulted on this kind of stuff so I reflexively try to guess what happens.
     
  11. John Beardsworth

    John Beardsworth Premium Member

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    Any other demosaicing software should be able to read a DNG's original raw data as a minimum. Theoretically the same software could be written so that it reads and translates Adobe's adjustments, but this is uncommon (can't think of an example) and I wouldn't depend on it.

    The embedded JPEG can be read by numerous programs. PhotoMechanic does this, for example, and displays the DNG's embedded JPEG precisely as the DNG looks in Lightroom. It can export it too. Peter Krogh used to take a couple of prints to his talks, one made from the embedded JPEG and the other from the original raw data - only a small percentage of professional photographers could tell the difference.

    My view has always been that one shouldn't be afraid of DNG - it has advantages - but to keep the proprietary raw files too. Disc space is cheap, and the format duplication is just an extra backup.
     
  12. jonathan7007

    jonathan7007 Premium Member

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    I'm experimenting with the inexpensive "FastRawViewer" program, which renders a RAW immediately and even shows what they describe as a RAW histogram - as opposed to the JPEG histogram, which is what we see on the back of the camera when we try to evaluate the quality of the exposure we have achieved. My goal is to cull (in some cases) before ingestion. I copy the whole set to an SSD inside the editing computer and look at the set with FastRawViewer. It has a quick stepping choice method or grid.

    I have almost bought PhotoMechanic lots of times over the years... this program is a tenth of the cost. It shows other formats, too. I did try Bridge for this purpose. This was way better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  13. bralk

    bralk Premium Member

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    Are you running High Sierra with CS6 ?

    thanks
     
  14. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, all you need to do is install some Java updates but I do that anyway.
    I have not experienced any problems.
     
  15. bralk

    bralk Premium Member

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    That’s really helpful - thanks
     
  16. AnthonyM

    AnthonyM Premium Member

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    Phot0 Mechanic does a lot more than review photos.
     
  17. Brent Dacus

    Brent Dacus Premium Member

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    I have been trying it this past week. I like most everything but the performance even Scrolling causes the cpu to load up.
     
  18. Brent Dacus

    Brent Dacus Premium Member

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    Paul

    Thanks I love to talk about DAM's... I currently use MediaPro 2.2. need to update my signature.. brb Ok done.. I currently like to break DAM's into 2 categories. Like Archival or file storage and keep editing separate. Some might say editing is not even a DAM function. So for me where as some would say Luminar is a DAM I would suggest its and editor. Also MediaPro is archival and not an editor. Now some have both functions like C1P it edits and catalogs. However its not strong in the Archival area but serious rocks in editing. I will add some more in a bit. Love this DAM topic..
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  19. Brent Dacus

    Brent Dacus Premium Member

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    I would add.
    Archival:
    Photo Supreme
    DigiKam

    Editor:
    Exposure X3
    On1 Photo RAW 2018
     
  20. Brent Dacus

    Brent Dacus Premium Member

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    Totally agree.
     

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