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Graphic example of the traditional camera manufacturers major problem

Discussion in 'General Photography Discussion' started by Richard_R, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Richard_R

    Richard_R Eclectic eccentric Staff Member

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    Please login or register to view links
     
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  2. Mike Gorman

    Mike Gorman Premium Member

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    And as phone/tablet cameras improve, the demise of traditional cameras(albeit digital these days) will continue!

    86196FDC-1A99-4A9A-B937-302898914BA1.jpeg
     
  3. RonFleet

    RonFleet Premium Member

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    I think the camera phone is good enough for most people - especially as they have no desire to print any of their photos, they just want to share them via social media platforms.. I was at an event last weekend when a lady excused herself for a minute while she got her camera. She returned with her phone. To her, its primary purpose was photography. Phones are replacing compact cameras at quite a rate - and you can make phone calls, surf the Web, and so on with them as well. I'm not convinced that they will replace "serious" cameras for a long time, where glass quantity and quality are important. Just my opinion.
     
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  4. tijuana taxi

    tijuana taxi Premium Member

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    Certainly handy having a camera phone that's with you most of the time, personally prefer a proper albeit small light camera.
    To that end I have just bought a Panasonic CSC, need ibis if I want to use primes

    Keeping my X-Pro2 and a selection of lenses for more serious photography, but wanted something lighter for city breaks
    At least I still have a camera, but did think (not for long) about going down the phone route, shame Fuji don't provide what I want
     
  5. Dan Hillier

    Dan Hillier Premium Member

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    For most people, photography is all about sharing memories. The camera sales bubble was driven by the convergence of technolgies at that time (improvements in digital image capture, faster internet speeds, faster computers, social media sites etc). If you want to share a photo online, you needed to digitise your image. A digital camera was an easy solution. As phones became better at taking photos, are a device many people always have with them, and are better at integrating with social media, then they became an even easier solution.

    I'm not sure how camera sales being on par with long term rates is a problem. (Although, the rapid drop off probably did lead to some poor investment and manufacturing decisions. I suspect, with hindsight, many companies may wish to have done things differently).
     
  6. Mr SMW

    Mr SMW Triple Platinum Member

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    I stopped using a 'camera' this year for all personal stuff after switching to an iPhone7.

    And I print.

    All family occasions, days out, holidays etc, - all phone now.

    I did take my back up/supposedly 'personal' camera, XT-20 with 18-55 on our first trip of the year, but never took it out of the back of the car.
     
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  7. Dan Hillier

    Dan Hillier Premium Member

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    During the 2000s, I had a couple of digital Point and Shoot cameras. Similar, I suspect to most of the cameras sold during the bubble. But I don't recall the image quality from them being so good that they were dramatically better than phone sensors. Now, when I see someone with a small sensored / simple P&S camera, I can't help but wonder why they bother. (Unless it has something cool, like a 50x zoom, or is waterproof)
     
  8. beegeeuk

    beegeeuk Premium Member

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    The best camera is the one you have with you and most of us have a smartphone with us all the time!
     
  9. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    We need to view this from the perspective of non-photographers who do not desire to truck around a bag of kit.
    I use my iphone 7+ for a lot of images these days but In the summer I want smaller so I use my iphone 6SE. However we need to be aware that sensor size is the definer of quality. Most users as @RonFleet says dont care about the quality.
    Horses for courses and also best camera is the one you have with you!
     
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  10. Richard_R

    Richard_R Eclectic eccentric Staff Member

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    Agree. It's not only the one you have with you but also the most convenient one. I needed a picture for a LinkedIn post today. Did I use my X100s from my bag? Nope, iPhone and emailed the photo to myself so it was on my work computer before I got back from putting the batteries on the recycle pile in the warehouse.

    Please login or register to view links
     
  11. runswithsizzers

    runswithsizzers Premium Member

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    Question is, can the camera mfgs continue to maintain profitability selling far fewer, but more expensive cameras? That is - if the market for enthusiast cameras continues to shrink, does that mean we can expect fewer models, higher prices, and possibly the withdrawal of minor players?

    Then again, the graph data is for all camera sales, 1977-2017. I assume the vast majority of those 'lost' sales were in the point-and-shoot market, so it's possible that enthusiast camera sales could be steady or even rising (?)

    Also, notice that for the last couple of years (2015-2017) the graph shows the huge drop in camera sales has flattened out. May be an insignificant blip, or, the worst may be over. If the camera market has flattened at 25 m, that's still a bigger market than what the industry had in the mid-1980s - which, as I recall, was not a bad time to buy a camera. So maybe 'big camera' is not dead yet ?

    Just found some more graphs <Please login or register to view links> which breaks down sales with a little more resolution. But it's a bit dated, going only up to 2015.
     
  12. audiman90

    audiman90 Premium Member

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    This has to be the worst kind of journalism, probably instigated by Apple itself. I think that their advertising dept are actually better than their product.
    Let's compare two things that are, at best, are only vaguely similar. And what about Android and Windows phones they by far outsold iPhones, or are we just blaming iPhones for the problem.
     
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  13. When you can make and receive a call on a Global Camera Ill put more stock into that graph.
     
  14. SixstringSlinger

    SixstringSlinger Premium Member

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    I'm strictly an enthusiast but like nice gear. I suppose there will always be folks like myself in the market as long as pro and pro-sumer gear is available. Yeah, I use my smartphone for convenience. (Samsung Galaxy S7) I snap a few quick pics and email them to myself for record keeping or for distribution to other parties when IQ is not so important. This is mostly work related. The smartphone is very handy when you are doing a small wiring project or electronic repair and want to save a quick wiring layout. Where do all the hoses go that attach to the intake manifold of my pickup truck?

    I work as an application engineer in the small engine business and must photograph equipment for engine matching applications. I have been doing this since well before digital cameras where invented. Back in the beginning I used a Nikkormat FT-N or EL with a 50mm 1.4 or 35-105 zoom. My first digital experience was using a Sony Digital Mavica MCV-91 that recorded data on a floppy disc! This was actually a huge time saver as the disc could be popped in the desktop much like a SD card of today and film photo process was not needed. The biggest plus was being able to see your photos before you left the test site. This was huge if the application was hours away and somehow you forgot a shot or it did not come out (operator error!). The camera was as big as an old polaroid with bellows.

    Later, mini point and shoot cameras fell into my favor as they are so small and can actually fit inside of some applications for detailed photos. I still use a old Canon SD1100-is for my engine matching applications. Phones suck at this BTW.

    I do know a couple of local pros who always have the smartphone handy and always take a few images with the phone at each shoot. They tell me often some of these photos make it to the album.

    I imagine there will be a continued up and down movement in high end photo gear as the enthusiast gets out then gets back in as new technology is developed on the phone and digital camera side of things. One thing that is interesting is a lack of buy-outs within the manufacturers to gain market share.
     
  15. Greybeard Photography

    Greybeard Photography Premium Member

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  16. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    That is truly a meltdown!
    Hope you get a free replacement.
     
  17. nu2digital

    nu2digital Premium Member

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    If the best camera is the one you have with you, then that would be my X-T1.

    I don't own a phone. I tried one once, but it took lousy pictures. I hardly ever used it after that. Mostly it sat on my desk, or in a bag. Every once in a great while when I fished it out for something the battery would be dead. I guess I just can't see why they're so popular.

    I do own several calculators. I'll take buttons over a touch screen any day of the week. (Boo for touch screens. Boo.) Now maybe if HP marketed a programmable calculator with a camera then we'd be getting somewhere. :)

    John
     
  18. Tarmoo

    Tarmoo Premium Member

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    The latest stats for camera sales are at: Please login or register to view links

    Production of Fixed Lens Cameras is down roughly 40% compared to last year (Jan-May), but Interchangeable Lens Cameras (ILC) are similar to last year (Volume down 3%, value up 8%). It looks like the average price of ILC cameras sold is increasing, especially the mirrorless (Non-Reflex). More mirrorless cameras are now sold in Japan than DSLRs, but in other markets DSLR sales are roughly twice that of mirrorless.

    The trend is for more higher valued cameras to be sold and less basic cameras such as point and shoot. I think it will be a few years for mirrorless to eclipse DSLRs, but it will happen eventually, especially if Canon and Nikon come out with new mirrorless models.
     
  19. LionSpeed

    LionSpeed Premium Member

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    ^^^
    Yes, I too believe mirrorless will dominate DSLRs in a not too distance future. I see no real benefit of "mirror" camera. Nothing but added size & weight. Compact is key.
     
  20. AndresC

    AndresC Premium Member

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    In my case after getting my first "proper" camera I have used my iphone┬┤s camera less and less, to the point that I keep thinking that I "need" a smaller camera that I can have with me all the time (the Sony RX100IV seems like the perfect camera for this, if I could afford it!).
    Regarding the camera trends, down here in Panama its much more common now to see people (specially younger people) with dslrs (mostly Canon) than 5-10 years ago, I myself bought my first dslr just 2 years ago.
     

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