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The death of the X-T10, and the end (for some) of an era?

Discussion in 'X-T2, X-T1, X-T20, X-T10' started by The Man With The Red Bag, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. mikEm13

    mikEm13 Premium Member

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    Whenever I hear the rumor that the X-T1 is discontinued I look at all the big stores/sites to check pricing. I might be interested in one if I found it at a great closeout price.
     
  2. sandroamt

    sandroamt Active Member

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  3. JeffLiban

    JeffLiban Well-Known Member

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    Well even if a product is not produced anymore doesn't mean they should stop FW updates, my 3 years old sony TV which is not in any shop for 1.5 years already still has FW updates, and it wasn't a flagship TV.
    I was expecting more support from Fuji for the X-T10 even if not a flagship camera, it was the camera that made me switch to them (from Nikon) and I am sure many others too.
    I don't care if they stopped producing it or the X-T1, it's the law of the market as a newer line is out, but another FW update for the X-T10 wouldn't killed them even if it's a placebo effect for us.
    Another item that should have a FW update is the XF 23mm f2, dunno why all other lenses got updates lately but this one
     
  4. sandroamt

    sandroamt Active Member

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    I agree but sadly they abandoned the x-t10 firmware improving last year (after only about a year of x-t10 life)!
    I Hope something will change in the future, but I think they want to pump up the new models selling!
    (Edit: I'm not sure that showing a so short life-cycle of firmware improving for not so old models, will pump-up new models selling, but this can be only my thought)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017 at 11:19 AM
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  5. Threaded

    Threaded Well-Known Member

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    Much is made of Fuji's kaizen approach and willingness to update older hardware, but it's never been a charitable act, just a good commercial approach.

    Obviously it's in Fuji's interest to fix any bugs and avoid poor publicity/returns, and this they do - I would be surprised if any significant bugs remained in the XT10 and sure that if any subsequently appeared, a new update would be produced.

    The other reason for updating firmware is actually adding new features and functionality, and this also makes good commercial sense - for current products. All the time the camera is on the shelves and being actively sold by Fuji, firmware improvements garner that product positive press keep it competitive with newer products from elsewhere, so that same 2013 hardware still looks up to date next to the 2015 body released by someone else. That's what kept the XT1 updated for two years, and also spurred a number of updates for the X-E2 and twin the X-E2s - the fact that they remained current cameras that whole time and needed to shift boxes.

    The XT10 sadly no longer fits that latter category - no x-trans ii camera does. The commercial advantage in further developing that platform is gone. Unless there's something genuinely *wrong* with the firmware you have, you won't see any more.
     
  6. Jonimages

    Jonimages Premium Member

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    I just don't understand this mentality that Fujifilm should keep alive old technology or invest time into "placebo" firmware. Do you really understand what you just said? It means "I don't care if it has any real benefit, it strokes my ego that I get a pat on the head."

    I expect Fujifilm to get a camera in working order and I buy a camera based on what it can do at the moment it is released. I expect Fujifilm to fix bugs that are discovered. Beyond that, it is gravy. I think it is wonderful Fujifilm comes out with FW that is almost like getting a new camera. Unfortunately, it now has become something that is expected and demanded to mean it must happen on regular basis by some users. There comes a time when a camera is as good as it can get. I don't buy a camera hoping it will get new features in the future. I think some people have a misunderstanding of what "Kaizen" is all about.

    I would rather Fujifilm push forward, not backwards when supporting old cameras. If something is broke, by all means fix it. If an update can add new features by all means. If it's to make someone happy the newest camera has a feature so it must be added to the older camera, then no. Buy the newer camera or be content.
     
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  7. sandroamt

    sandroamt Active Member

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    I agree they shouldn't waste time in "placebo" firmware BUT spend time for really improved firmware! why? read below...

    I partially agree: the software today could be so complex that is almost impossible to have something like a digital camera completely bug free.
    And, also if you have a photo camera bug free, the software technology can improve also with the same hardware!

    I repeat, very improbable but, I admit, theoretically possible!

    why not? following that philosophy our computer had to be an old DOS and not windows/mac os/linux/etc...
    usually you set-up an hardware and step by step the software starts to use all characteristics of the hardware until for some new software technology you need a new hardware, but then the hardware do a jump longer than the software needs!

    I sincerely don't know if I misunderstand something or you missed 30 year of software/hardware related development... maybe a little bit both, you and me missed something ;)

    Last but not the least, showing continuous improvement for not so old models, can stimulate new and old customer to buy something expensive because it is an investment, else why I chose fujifilm and not panasonic or sony or olympus or canon or nikon? Again, that is just my opinion! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017 at 7:35 PM
  8. Jonimages

    Jonimages Premium Member

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    That is not even a comparable analogy. I buy a camera because it has x features. If it doesn't have the features I need, it would be stupid of me to invest in a camera that doesn't meet my needs. It's stupid to buy a camera HOPING the features will be added with firmware. I just find that notion as silly.

    I haven't missed anything in regards to what has happened with computers and software for last few decades and I really don't appreciate your passive aggressive statement. You statement implies I have been living in a bubble for the past decades. There comes a time a computer becomes obsolete and can't handle anything new. If all I ever use to the day I die is my current X-T2, I will not have to upgrade my computer or software to churn out pictures. If I buy new cameras, there will be a point my current computer will not handle the files nor the software needed to produce pictures.

    By all means if a computer can handle a new software or hardware upgrade it's awesome to keep it going a little longer. Fujifilm as a company should always strive to improve. That doesn't mean it needs to be carried over to old cameras. There comes a point where they have to focus on new cameras and new features. Someone is always going to be disappointed when an old camera is no longer supported.

    You keep bringing up computers in your analogy so lets keep it with that. Some computers cannot handle the newest software or features. Same with a camera. It has hardware and processors. Sometimes it cannot handle new features. There comes a point it cannot be upgraded and gets about as good as it can. For years I built my own computers. I tried to push them to the limits. I would load software on to them that technically it worked. In practice they couldn't handle the software without severely limiting what the program could do. I am sure fuji could release a firmware update that enables face detection in the x100s. It may work but it probably wouldn't be a great experience.

    And it is one of the reasons I like Fuji as well. I just don't expect them to keep updating an old camera when there is a newer version. Fujifilm is a business and I want them to be profitable. It is good for them to throw us a bone with new features. It does this better than any other camera manufacturer, yet some of the fuji user base feel entitled to upgrades. I don't feel that way.
     
  9. sandroamt

    sandroamt Active Member

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    Your opinion, I don't agree but I respect!


    Sorry, I wouldn't be nor aggressive nor passive and I put a winky smile there!

    More, I "saw" more aggressive your statement "I think some people have a misunderstanding of what "Kaizen" is all about" but that maybe is due to my being not english native language!

    Even more, I said something similar that you missed to cite: "usually you set-up an hardware and step by step the software starts to use all characteristics of the hardware until for some new software technology you need a new hardware, but then the hardware do a jump longer than the software needs!"

    I didn't say that fuji must do that!


    Again as I noted before you missed I said something similar (well not exactly the same ;) )...
    Finally, I used computer analogy simply because digital camera ARE computer + ccd/cmos sensor + lenses (but from what you said before, I am sure you know that ;))!


    There are various reasons I used to like fuji, one of this reasons (NOT the only one) is also because they appeared to continually improve also old (well, not so much old) cameras! A behavior that I saw less in other brands, but maybe fuji is going to self-leveling down with other brands!
     
  10. JeffLiban

    JeffLiban Well-Known Member

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    I am coming from a marketing world, personally a placebo FW won't be a plus for my day to day usage of course, but in a marketing meaning it shows potential customers that they can rely on Fuji as they give FW updates all the time. Look at the smartphones forums, most people measure smartphones by the number of FW they get even after they are discontinued and even if half if these FW are placebo or useless. So yes if Fuji can't find a reason to put a useful update, they can put a nearly useless one without going into details in the changelog like samsung,sony,HTC,apple do every couple of weeks with their smartphones, for marketing sake and to give a good image of the brand.
    You and I we know when a FW is useless or not but the mass don't, they just need to be pampered with FW updates ;)
     
  11. Jonimages

    Jonimages Premium Member

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    It's sad that actually works, but I guess we do have an entitled attitude now.
     
  12. visorvet

    visorvet Premium Member

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    To the OP, don't sweat the small stuff and enjoy your camera. The chances are very good that your camera will last you 5 more years, and possibly longer assuming decent care and feeding. Such is the nature of ephemeral digital bodies these days, and Fuji is no worse than any other manufacturer - they are built with the expectation that the owner will want to upgrade to a version with improved bells and whistles in a year or two. But for what it's worth, I've never had any kind of tech problem or repair with my 9 or so Fuji bodies since I switched to this brand several years ago, including both the X-T10 and X-T20. If your camera does die, you will be able to replace it with a used one if cash is tight.
     
  13. johant

    johant Premium Member

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    My experience so far with Fujifilm cameras is that they all break in the first few months, and keep working for a long time after that. If your X-T10 is working well now, I would not worry.

    I intend to keep using my X-Pro1 until it falls apart.
     

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